Nebraska State F-Class match 8/27/2016

[Ned Ludd]

Good point Drew, I should have mentioned that. The top 2 scores in F-TR were shot with .223s using 90 VLDs. There were a couple others shooting .223s as well. With the better high BC .224" bullets currently available, the inherent accuracy and lack of recoil of the .223 Rem cartridge makes it a great choice for F-TR, especially in MR matches.

 

[boltman223]

Good point Drew, I should have mentioned that. The top 2 scores in F-TR were shot with .223s using 90 VLDs. There were a couple others shooting .223s as well. With the better high BC .224" bullets currently available, the inherent accuracy and lack of recoil of the .223 Rem cartridge makes it a great choice for F-TR, especially in MR matches.

Shhh

 

[dcali]

I'm curious to see if the new berger 200 kills the .223. That sounds like quite a bullet.

 

[boltman223]

I'm curious to see if the new berger 200 kills the .223. That sounds like quite a bullet.

Yes, totally. Well at 600 or 1000?

At 600 I don't think it will totally. In some really nasty stuff it may save you a point or two.

A (I think .640 BC) of the new berger in say a 7mm that's moving around 2800 definitely has an advantage over a 223, but moving along at ~2650 doesn't have enough for me to switch. That's just my though and Only range time will tell.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'm curious to see if the new berger 200 kills the .223. That sounds like quite a bullet.

It's supposed to represent a 4% increase in BC over the old 200 Hybrid. That's definitely an improvement, but it's certainly not a quantum leap in BC. Running reasonable velocity for a 200 gr bullet (2660 fps) and my velocity for the 90 VLDs (2850 fps), JBM indicates a 0.4 MOA advantage to the new 200.20X at 600 yd (3.3 vs 3.7 MOA, 10 mph full value wind) and a 0.9 MOA advantage at 1000 yd (6.3 vs 7.2 MOA). The comparable numbers for the old 200 Hybrid are 3.5 and 6.6 MOA, respectively.

Remember though, it's still a 200 gr bullet (200.2 gr, actually) and recoil management issues will be the same as with the old 200 Hybrid. The recoil won't magically go away because of the increased BC design. At 600 yd, if the wind conditions are relatively mild, some of the advantage of the new 200.20X will be lost to anyone that isn't fully accustomed to handling the recoil of a 200 gr bullet. If the wind is moderate to pretty challenging, I'm sure it will perform admirably. Personally, I'll still be perfectly happy with the 3.7 MOA at 600 yd using the .223/90s, and I have a few tricks up my sleeve that might just boost their performance a tad more. Not to the level of this new bullet, not on paper at least, but enough to potentially close the gap just a bit. I personally find the almost complete lack of recoil with the .223 and the inherent precision to which the 90 VLD can be made to shoot a big advantage. If you're used to heavies in a .308, you really ought to be able to work some magic with this new bullet. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the other shooters will likely be using the exact same thing now that the word is out.

At 1000 yd, well, the 90s just really haven't been used all that much, I think in part, because they're somehow generally perceived as being "deficient" in some way at that distance. The fact is that they most definitely are at a disadvantage to a 200 gr Hybrid (old or new)...but no more than any other typical 185 gr .308 load would be. If you want to run with people shooting 200s...you really need to be shooting 200s or higher, not 185s, or even 90s for that matter.

 

[Down South]

You hit the nail on the head Greg, as usual........

 

[dcali]

Greg, you are of course right. I'm also a little concerned (thought this is obviously speculation) that he new 200 might be a little finicky in terms of its accuracy potential. I guess we'll see. I was unimpressed by the 200s and 210's before - it just doesn't seem to be enough BC to make up for the added weight/recoil. May as well shoot the 185's. But these new ones are more long the lines of the 215s, which I've tried (and failed) with - worth it if you can shoot them.

The more I shoot the less I care about recoil (I guess I'm getting better at managing it), but I have to admit the idea of shooting an 18lb .223 seems almost like cheating. I'd probably try it if it didn't mean getting a whole new rifle.

 

[Down South]

Greg, you are of course right. I'm also a little concerned (thought this is obviously speculation) that he new 200 might be a little finicky in terms of its accuracy potential. I guess we'll see. I was unimpressed by the 200s and 210's before - it just doesn't seem to be enough BC to make up for the added weight/recoil. May as well shoot the 185's. But these new ones are more long the lines of the 215s, which I've tried (and failed) with - worth it if you can shoot them.

The more I shoot the less I care about recoil (I guess I'm getting better at managing it), but I have to admit the idea of shooting an 18lb .223 seems almost like cheating. I'd probably try it if it didn't mean getting a whole new rifle.

I haven't had my hands on the new Berger 200.2 gr bullet yet but from what I heard from a friend that tested it is that it's a very accurate bullet. Time will tell as more shooters get their hands on it........As for the original 200 hybrid, I personally think it's a fantastic bullet. I've shot it in 4 different barrels and always found it easy to tune with very very good accuracy at all distances........I'm not a small guy and recoil is not a issue for me so that could be part of the reason why I've never had trouble with the heavier bullets. I could understand why some folks don't wanna shoot the heavies.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Just looking at the picture of it side-by-side with the old 200 Hybrid, my gut feeling is that the dimensional changes, if anything, might make it even easier to tune. But that's just speculation on my part. Unfortunately, how much of an advantage the relative lack of recoil of a .223 shooting 90s might be is very difficult to accurately quantify. I know that for me, it is definitely a benefit in terms of gun handling when compared to my .308 shooting 185s at ~2780 fps. Even if the effect is not huge, it gives me confidence behind the rifle, which in and of itself is a mental advantage, if not a physical one. Bottom line for me is that I tend not to worry too much about what the other person is using. I have enough to worry about making sure I perform to the best of my ability with what I have. I know the .223/90s is capable of shooting solid scores at 600 yd, even in moderately challenging wind conditions. So I'll be happy to stick with it until/unless it becomes obvious that it simply isn't competitive any longer. My guess (hope) is that that won't be anytime soon .

 

[Jdne5b]

Just looking at the picture of it side-by-side with the old 200 Hybrid, my gut feeling is that the dimensional changes, if anything, might make it even easier to tune. But that's just speculation on my part. Unfortunately, how much of an advantage the relative lack of recoil of a .223 shooting 90s might be is very difficult to accurately quantify. I know that for me, it is definitely a benefit in terms of gun handling when compared to my .308 shooting 185s at ~2780 fps. Even if the effect is not huge, it gives me confidence behind the rifle, which in and of itself is a mental advantage, if not a physical one. Bottom line for me is that I tend not to worry too much about what the other person is using. I have enough to worry about making sure I perform to the best of my ability with what I have. I know the .223/90s is capable of shooting solid scores at 600 yd, even in moderately challenging wind conditions. So I'll be happy to stick with it until/unless it becomes obvious that it simply isn't competitive any longer. My guess (hope) is that that won't be anytime soon .

With your wind reading skills, it would take something much worse than moderate winds, more along the terribly ferocious winds to make the 90s a disadvantage compared to the 200s. The person shooting the 200s would still need to have the same wind skills or better to take advantage of the BC.

I too anxiously await more reports on this bullet. The paper BC is not a huge improvement, but if it wasnt beneficial, the Berger wouldnt be making it. So maybe the benefits out weigh the paper BC gains.

Time will tell.