Nat'l Firearms Background Check Law Intro

[bobinpa]

The penalty isn’t severe enough .

Wow, you and I finally agree on something!!! That's my logic all along.... if the penalties were stiffer, people would be forced to take more responsibility for their actions, which is the way it should be! Then they would get the training on their own, IF THEY NEED IT, and only if they need it. It doesn't and wouldn't have to be mandatory.

 

[savagedasher]

It's good that you teach kids about guns. I have taught kids about guns too. I have also taught adults about guns. I have taken people that have never fired a gun and taught them to shoot..... I still don't think it should be mandatory to own one.

Don’t we have registering gun now
Why not register the gun owner and not registering the gun they own
Now we have both

 

[bobinpa]

Don’t we have registering gun now

No, we don't, but they sure are trying.

 

[savagedasher]

No, we don't, but they sure are trying.

Do you think when we buy a gun that’s the government is honest about not keeping records

 

[bobinpa]

Do you think when we buy a gun that’s the government is honest about not keeping records

Nope, but I'm not sure exactly what they know either. I always felt that the 4473 form was a backdoor registration but I really don't know enough about it to comment about it. When you think about it, the NICS system could also be a backdoor registration. They may not know what people have but they know which people have something.

 

[savagedasher]

Nope, but I'm not sure exactly what they know either. I always felt that the 4473 form was a backdoor registration but I really don't know enough about it to comment about it. When you think about it, the NICS system could also be a backdoor registration. They may not know what people have but they know which people have something.

I have a cc license so they know
J

 

[rr2030]

Do you think when we buy a gun that’s the government is honest about not keeping records

Sure they are. Just like they dont have records of everyone on gun forums. The built in cameras are always on as are the microphones.

Just remember, these things never happened happened happened ...............

The government poisoned alcohol during Prohibition and killed thousands
The government is trying to control your mind
The government lied to get the country involved in wars
The government knows where the aliens are
The government can control the weather
Condensation trails from aircraft consist of chemical or biological agents, or contain a toxic mix
Fluoridation is a plot to weaken the American population

 

[akajiggs]

Hey I have the solution. Just make crime illegal!

That won't work because that would put all politicians out of work and in jail where they belong.
If a man will lie to you,he will steal from you.

 

[people]

Do you think when we buy a gun that’s the government is honest about not keeping records

So you want to give them more power over you? Why would you want that? I will ask it again what are the punishments if you do not have this class you speak of?

 

[22BRGUY]

Until EVERY COUNTY in the U.S.A. has an ACTIVE Second Amendment Support Group willing to stand up for and CHALLENGE the "INFRINGEMENTS" the forward path of the Second Amendment and The Constitution itself is OBVIOUSLY Sure!
The French have the right idea. Does "UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL?" ring a bell yet?
JMHO

 

[fyrewall]

Take a look at the recently passed Washington State gun control initiative - all the worst things in 29 pages and 1 paragraph - records of sales kept by local LE, surrendering medical privacy, waiting periods, enhanced background checks, age restrictions, opportunities for "pay-back" for those unfriendly , ….. The initiative was at first blocked by a state court but that was appealed and now it is going to federal district court (likely initiative supported) then fed appeals court (likely initiative supported) then to SCOTUS ( hopefully to be heard then tossed). Sheriffs in rural counties might refuse to enforce it. Many LE does not like it.

Want an example of "infringement"? 60 % of voters approve of initiative showing successful mind control. Read this thing and see, "enough is enough". A bad day in a once great state where blue collar Dems and Republicans happily interacted. I moved but fear this business will pursue me.

The dead husband's widow has a limited time to file some report with the Washington State Department of Licensing to itemize her dead husband's weapons.

Approved gun safety and attendance would/could infringe if unavailable, long waiting lists, or excessive costs; this would provide more infringement if engineered and promoted by anti's.

I am a descendant of a much persecuted Protestant minority in a European country who suffered "cruel and unusual punishments" and was taught about the values of our Second Amendment by older relatives who had many semi-auto military type weapons. Parity would require full auto and bigger than .50 caliber.

 

[22BRGUY]

Don’t we have registering gun now
Why not register the gun owner and not registering the gun they own
Now we have both

Respectfully, I've read the Second Amendment several times and I just don't see that "registration" word anywhere. Guess it's time for stronger glasses for me.

 

[22BRGUY]

Take a look at the recently passed Washington State gun control initiative - all the worst things in 29 pages and 1 paragraph - records of sales kept by local LE, surrendering medical privacy, waiting periods, enhanced background checks, age restrictions, opportunities for "pay-back" for those unfriendly , ….. The initiative was at first blocked by a state court but that was appealed and now it is going to federal district court (likely initiative supported) then fed appeals court (likely initiative supported) then to SCOTUS ( hopefully to be heard then tossed). Sheriffs in rural counties might refuse to enforce it. Many LE does not like it.

Want an example of "infringement"? 60 % of voters approve of initiative showing successful mind control. Read this thing and see, "enough is enough". A bad day in a once great state where blue collar Dems and Republicans happily interacted. I moved but fear this business will pursue me.

The dead husband's widow has a limited time to file some report with the Washington State Department of Licensing to itemize her dead husband's weapons.

Approved gun safety and attendance would/could infringe if unavailable, long waiting lists, or excessive costs; this would provide more infringement if engineered and promoted by anti's.

I am a descendant of a much persecuted Protestant minority in a European country who suffered "cruel and unusual punishments" and was taught about the values of our Second Amendment by older relatives who had many semi-auto military type weapons. Parity would require full auto and bigger than .50 caliber.

Sad story.
Where do these types get the idea that The Constitution of the US can be changed by an initiative??
Democracy is 3 wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
Hopefully this country is still a Republic.

 

[Richard Coody]

The information may be purged from the BATF records but they can still trace a firearm via dealer records which are never destroyed. I have to keep the paper 4473 as long as I am in business. When I close my business I have the option of sending all the 4473's to the BATF for their safekeeping.

i have always wondered how this works. you do a background check on a purchaser. batf purges that record of background check. you keep the 4473 and it is never transmitted to any government agency but they can come look at your records any time.

now for my question. when you as a federal firearms dealer purchased that gun from your distributor or manufacturer is there a paper trail leading to you. in other words if the police run the serial numbers will your name come up as the one who sold it.

 

[clowdis]

i have always wondered how this works. you do a background check on a purchaser. batf purges that record of background check. you keep the 4473 and it is never transmitted to any government agency but they can come look at your records any time.

now for my question. when you as a federal firearms dealer purchased that gun from your distributor or manufacturer is there a paper trail leading to you. in other words if the police run the serial numbers will your name come up as the one who sold it.

Yes, there is a paper trail from the wholesaler to me. Even if I buy a firearm from an individual I record the person's name and address and keep a copy of their driver license in my records. BATF does occasionally do a compliance check to see if I'm keeping the records in order but they never take copies of the 4473's unless I screw something up.

 

[cinch29433]

All of the documentation in the world is just a record of who's possession the firearm was last recorded. None of that keeps a goofball from doing something they shouldn't with it. Heck some miscreant could lift it out of your car in the garage and shoot your neighbors car...

 

[Richard Coody]

Yes, there is a paper trail from the wholesaler to me. Even if I buy a firearm from an individual I record the person's name and address and keep a copy of their driver license in my records. BATF does occasionally do a compliance check to see if I'm keeping the records in order but they never take copies of the 4473's unless I screw something up.

so reality is all the information is there for a national firearms registry it is just not compiled and that would be one hell of a job.

now i have both my grandfathers guns and my fathers guns. i am 64. don't know when they started the 4473's but after those guns were bought i bet there are a lot out there like that.

 

[ED3]

so reality is all the information is there for a national firearms registry it is just not compiled and that would be one hell of a job.

now i have both my grandfathers guns and my fathers guns. i am 64. don't know when they started the 4473's but after those guns were bought i bet there are a lot out there like that.

Not so much a registry, as opposed to a tracking mechanism from mfgr, to distributor, to wholesaler, to retailer, to retail customer. Beyond that, there is no paper trail if there is transfer of a firearm from private party, to private party in the same state. If LE wants to trace a gun they can start at mfgr and follow the paper trail to the first retail customer.

 

[clowdis]

Not so much a registry, as opposed to a tracking mechanism from mfgr, to distributor, to wholesaler, to retailer, to retail customer. Beyond that, there is no paper trail if there is transfer of a firearm from private party, to private party in the same state. If LE wants to trace a gun they can start at mfgr and follow the paper trail to the first retail customer.

That is one reason that a 4473 should be done even for a personal sale. If you sell the gun and it gets used in a crime then it's going to be traced back to you and you'll have to explain your way out of it if you can. If you have a retailer do a 4473 transfer then you're free and clear if the gun is used in a crime. It will be traced back to you but they can pick up the trail again at the dealer that did the transfer for you.

 

[The German]

Why more firearms related training at all? I don't think it is needed.

Training, no matter to what level will not fix the criminals shooting each others, committing murders, the desperate people committing suicide with a firearm and for sure not the criminals that get shot by police (most of the time for a reason...).

Not that any additional firearms related training would be bad, it may even lower the number of firearms related deaths by accident (I believe the total number is under 500/year), but throwing the cry for more training into the context of about 38,000 firearm related death is just utterly nonsense and solely done by the anti-gunners to establish more control.

For the same reason, the example with hunters ed classes does not fit - that training is aimed at accident avoidance, not at crime prevention.

Also - if asking for more education, why is that responsibility being pushed to schools? I parenting nowadays reduced to making and feeding kids and the rest of the responsibility is conveniently being pushed out to others or the government? If anybody thinks that more firearms related education is needed, these people should go ahead and offer free classes at youth groups like boys/girls scouts, church events etc. - just stop crying that somebody else needs to do that.

But i was aiming for a good even coat of everyone getting some basics. Thats what school is about. Hell i would be satisfied with them just hammering the 4 basic safety rules.