My thought's on long-range hunting and shooting

[wjm1000]

I’ve been long-range hunting (over 40 years) and have been a 1000-yard completive shooter for a number of years and winning a IBS/NBRSA national championship for 1000 yard score and two state championships for smallest group.



First off to be successful you must have excellent equipment to do the job, that’s fairly easy to do if you have the money to buy what is required. In my opinion the weakest link in the chain is the scope, buy the best you can afford, the rifle can sometimes be purchased of the shelf, manufactured by several commercial rifle makers. That being said in my opinion if you’re going to spend your hard-earned dollars, go to a qualified gun builder and have a custom barrel chambered in your favorite caliber. That will take care of part of the equation.

Now for the hard part is acquiring the skill set. I really don’t know how to tell you how to go about it, other than I practice when the conditions are bad at the longest range I can 300 to 500 yards or so would be good. Shorter ranges can work but not be as dramatic of changes as the longer ranges. I should mention quality ammunition is of major importance. (Good scope + good rifle + bad ammo = bad groups.) When shooting in windy conditions I pay close attention to the wind in front of the rifle, when the bullet exits the barrel gravity and wind acts on it immediately and stars to pull it down and in the direction of the wind and I think it effects it the most at that moment a few thousands of deflections at the muzzle can be huge at distance. I also look at the conditions along the bullets path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there.

In all honesty while having many one shot kills at distance, I’ve also had my share of near misses on the first shot, but if having an opportunity for a second shot I more often than not make a clean kill. In the many years of hunting long-range, I never crippled one and have it get away. On rare occasions I did have to shoot an animal again not wanting to let it bleed-out and suffer.

I’ll probably have a lot of blow-back on this and maybe called BS but this is what works for me.

 

[CJ6]

1st Congratulations on your accomplishments in BR.
2nd I'm making several bowls of popcorn for this one.

 

[hogpatrol]

 

[boltfluter]

Many times, the practiced long range hunter is more ethical than the weekend warriors, that only hunt and shoot two weeks out of the year. You have obviously put in the time and have the skill to hunt at long range. Congrats on some fine trophies!
Paul

 

[K22]

No "blow back" from me. You are an accomplished marksman and have spent the time, money, and effort to master the fundamentals of shooting long range and developing your field shooting skills.

I am at the range 2 to 3 days a week and the vast majority of shooters I meet at the ranges where I shoot have no idea what they are doing in term of understanding the basics of marksmanship. Also, the vast majority of shooters blast away with ARs and have no interest in precision shooting, they just want to make noise and hit a 10" diameter gong at 100 yards.

It is even worse during the first few weeks before deer season starts here in PA. I have seen every kind of screwball thing you can imagine with guys trying to sight in their rifles for deer season. I think the reason there is so much success in PA hunting deer as evidenced by the number of deer taken each year is that most of the terrain provides for short distances with an animal that has a relatively large vital area. Stevie Wonder could probably hit a deer in the average shooting situation in PA if you pointed him the right direction.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Please go do some of the youtube challenges. Eric cortina is doing a 500 yard moa hunting challenge in texas. There is one in st george utah with milk jugs out to 600 on backfire. There is moa at 1000 i think it is impact shooting. While less hunting oriented, there is the milk jug challenge with long range shooters of utah.

Spoiler alert, most accomplished shooters and hunting guides can't consistently take a perfect broadside deer at 500 yards with unlimited equipment and unlimited time. Its pretty eye opening, and explains why people shoot 300 WM at a tiny whitetail 50 yards away....

 

[K22]

Please go do some of the youtube challenges. Eric cortina is doing a 500 yard moa hunting challenge in texas. There is one in st george utah with milk jugs out to 600 on backfire. There is moa at 1000 i think it is impact shooting. While less hunting oriented, there is the milk jug challenge with long range shooters of utah.

Spoiler alert, most accomplished shooters and hunting guides can't consistently take a perfect broadside deer at 500 yards with unlimited equipment and unlimited time. Its pretty eye opening, and explains why people shoot 300 WM at a tiny whitetail 50 yards away....

In my experience, there is a huge difference between shooting at a target at the range and shooting at a deer in the field.

Often you have a limited amount of time, usually short, to make a shot. You don't always have the optimum perfect broadside shot. You often have an uphill or downhill shot, not a nice flat range. You have brush that can obscure the target giving you a small window to place the shot. Here in the east, deer are most active in early morning or evening making low light conditions an issue. Also, you have to pay attention to wind direction since deer have the ability to pick up your scent and avoid your stand location.

Depending on the type of field shooting aid you use, it is often much less stable than a bench with bags or prone with a bipod. Here in the east, sometimes you are dealing with inclement weather during deer seasons, i.e., rain, snow, cold.

This is why I smile when guys debate the "best" deer cartridge. There is a huge difference between paper ballistics and real-world hunting. Given any suitable deer cartridge and there are a ton of them, the real key to success is one's ability to master shooting under field conditions at an animal that has binocular vision, a radar nose for scent, and sonar hearing ability.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Most deer hunters don't have a rangefinder. Most don't know how to actually zero a scope at 100 yards. Most don't know how wind effects the bullet, other than it "drifts". I still help out at rifle sight in days at my range, torque/recoil is usually a big issue with once/twice a year shooters. Especially when bullet weights get above 180-200 grs.

 

[jepp2]

I’ll probably have a lot of blow-back on this and maybe called BS but this is what works for me.

I envy your trophy wall and your abilities. You did an excellent job covering the basics of what is required to accomplish long range shots, except I feel you missed covering one very important element. Time in flight and the fact the animal can change position from where it was when you fired the shot.

I think of the number of big game animals that moved before I could even finish my trigger squeeze (and in those cases I didn't shoot). I hunt prairie dogs extensively each year. Try to time my shoot with when the pups are out and active. I wish I had a $1 for every shot on a pup I have taken where the pup was "when" I just finished my squeeze on the trigger. The can move very quickly and I shot where they were, not where they are now.

At 1000 yards, time in flight is over a full second. That can be a lifetime for an animal to shift position. It is just part of what goes into the decision of if it is a shot you should or shouldn't take.

 

[wjm1000]

You are correct about the time of flight, that’s why you have to pick your shot and wait. Most of the deer I’ve shot were slowly feeding or bedded down when I shot. You just have to wait until a shot can be taken.

 

[boltfluter]

You are correct about the time of flight, that’s why you have to pick your shot and wait. Most of the deer I’ve shot were slowly feeding or bedded down when I shot. You just have to wait until a shot can be taken.

This is exactly right! If in doubt, you need to wait. The world will not end if you have to pass on an animal. The mental aspect is as important as your shooting skills, maybe more so. Respect your quarry.
Paul

 

[RabbitSlayer]

In my experience, there is a huge difference between shooting at a target at the range and shooting at a deer in the field.

Often you have a limited amount of time, usually short, to make a shot. You don't always have the optimum perfect broadside shot. You often have an uphill or downhill shot, not a nice flat range. You have brush that can obscure the target giving you a small window to place the shot. Here in the east, deer are most active in early morning or evening making low light conditions an issue. Also, you have to pay attention to wind direction since deer have the ability to pick up your scent and avoid your stand location.

Depending on the type of field shooting aid you use, it is often much less stable than a bench with bags or prone with a bipod. Here in the east, sometimes you are dealing with inclement weather during deer seasons, i.e., rain, snow, cold.

This is why I smile when guys debate the "best" deer cartridge. There is a huge difference between paper ballistics and real-world hunting. Given any suitable deer cartridge and there are a ton of them, the real key to success is one's ability to master shooting under field conditions at an animal that has binocular vision, a radar nose for scent, and sonar hearing ability.

Thats exactly my point. At 500 yards most people miss the moa kill zone with a 25lb competition rifle, unlimited time, and a perfect prone position on a matt with flat ground. I guess some folks hunt from a blind over a farm field or a feeder with a benchrest setup. Thats not how we do it out west though.

 

[AWS]

I personally think that anyone contemplating long range hunting needs to spend some time seeing what distance they can consistently make a first cold bore kill shot from field positions. I think it would be very surprising for some.

We have an Egg shoot, chicken eggs at 150 yards hunting rifles with 15x or less scopes, shooting off cross sticks with time limits, final round is 1 shot in 30 seconds. The results can be very humbling. I've gone the whole route from not breaking a single egg to winning it. The year I won I spent the summer shooting dime size targets at 100 yards with my 22LR.

I personally limit myself to 300 yards on coyotes as I don't turn turrets and can hold on fur to that distance.

 

[Spoonbill]

What makes my decision on how far of a shot on a deer or varmint I am willing to take (weather conditions aside) is my shooting position. I never hunt in a prone position so a rear rest is never in play. Sometimes I hunt in a tower or box blind where I can get rested with my trigger side elbow to get me a little more stable but even then I just dont feel totally comfortable taking more than a 300 yard shot. 200 is about the max.

 

[Dimner]

Your work ethic and skill are commendable.

For me, and my personal tastes, shooting animals (other than varmints) at long range isn't my definition of hunting. Not saying it doesn't take practice or skill. However, my definition of hunting has less to do with marksmanship and more to do with being able to get near the game unseen and put your self in the right position where the game will be.

Hunting is not scoping an area 10 football field long looking for a random mammal. If hunting were this, I'd just either raise my own meat or buy it at the butcher store.

 

[Dimner]

Most deer hunters don't have a rangefinder. Most don't know how to actually zero a scope at 100 yards. Most don't know how wind effects the bullet, other than it "drifts". I still help out at rifle sight in days at my range, torque/recoil is usually a big issue with once/twice a year shooters. Especially when bullet weights get above 180-200 grs.

When I hunt. Scouting by far so much more important than any piece of equipment.

Without going into the long detail of scouting... The end result is a spot where I can hunt game with nearly any rifle. Even irons. Scopes are zeroed for a maximum point blank range of 250. Meaning that no matter the range, from zero to 250 all I have to do is aim the center cross hairs at the boiler room and the deer goes down. No holds no wind reads, no nothing. If the wind is blowing hard all it does is reduce my maximum point blank range. And if it's blowing really hard, no deer is going to be out there anyway.

None of this is possible without the proper scouting.

 

[Eudean]

No comment about the human condition.

 

[nakneker]

Many times, the practiced long range hunter is more ethical than the weekend warriors, that only hunt and shoot two weeks out of the year. You have obviously put in the time and have the skill to hunt at long range. Congrats on some fine trophies!
Paul

Amen!

 

[nakneker]

Practice practice practice. I have steel set up out to 1500 yards on the west of my place. I have a bench set up outside the reloading room with 100 and 200 yard fixed targets to sight in and shoot groups. The real key to long range in my opinion is burning some powder and bullets and practicing, do it in windy conditions, cold, hot, different positions and you’ll learn what your personal limits are.

I help a lot of family and friends every year with their big game hunts. All of them spend a good amount of time practicing before the hunt, helping and watching them gives you a good idea of what range they are proficient at.

The majority of the country we hunt is country where long shots are the norm not the exception. Many of the areas we hunt a 300 yard shot would be considered close.

I know many people who are lethal at long range, more so than many I know who struggle at any range including short ranges.

With today’s optics and ranging equipment that help so much of your shooting solution compared to what was available just 10 years ago long range is very doable and very ethical in my opinion if you’ve paid your dues.

Last thought. This has helped a lot of the people improve and make first round hits. We play a game where we head to the badlands. We take the razors and we have a contest. The rules of the game are simple. We drive until someone sees a shot they want to take, we stop. Everyone gets one shot, only one shot. Closest impact wins, everyone has to put a 5 dollar bill out for every round. We shoot until we’ve had 20 rounds. You can’t get any help with your dope or your wind, your on your own. When it’s your turn to pick the target you also get to pick the position. We shot prone, tripods, bipods, kneeling and so forth. The money adds a bit of competition to the game and gives people bragging rights so it naturally gets a bit serious which is good. It helps people really try and make a good first round impact. We shoot at different angles of elevation and different ranges. We’ve been playing at this for 5-6 years now and I’ve seen it help a lot of shooters, plus its fun. We’re spoiled here, the badlands are only 30 minutes away and offers up all kinds of targets. It will let you know if your game is dialed or if you need more practice. We usually do this 5-6 times before hunting seasons arrive. Young people get to play free

 

[jackieschmidt]

Love him or hate him, he‘s been doing it for years.