Muzzle brakes and accuracy for 6.5 Creedmoor

[Steve Donlon]

My 6.5 Creedmoor rifle has less than 300 rounds through the bore. New Bartlein barrel. I put the old muzzle brake on and have thought it should be shooting better. I said to myself,"it's a new barrel so it will get better" Then I decided to try another brake. So i bought a LITTLE BASTARD, an ACE and a Pegasus. I tried the ACE brake first and it shot 2" high and 1" to the left and was more accurate. Then the Little Bastard and it was about 1" high and to the left but there was more recoil. Last I tried the Pegasus and it shot exactly where the Ace brake shot. To the same point of aim. And there was much less recoil with the Ace and Pegasus. Went out to 500 yards and the Ace and Pegasus cut my groups at least in half from what I have been shooting. When I looked at the difference between the Ace, Pegasus and the other two brakes it was plan to see the difference. The other two brakes where for 30 cal and below. So the exit hole in the brake was bigger. The Ace and Pegasus have holes in the top of the brake, the others do not. Also the holes in the sides of the brakes where different. The Ace and the Pegasus have bigger holes while the exit hole at the muzzle is smaller, made just for the 6.5 caliber. I never would have known what I was missing if I had not tried different brakes to see which one worked best with my barrel. Just a heads up to what I saw happen with just a different brake.

 

[jpx2rk]

Based on my experience with brakes (but on smaller 20 & 22 calibers), a change in POI is expected and noted with each gun. The majority of the time the brake will reduce or tighten up the groups some, a little bit, etc., but the improvements are consistent. All of my brakes are sized for 6mm, as I do have a couple 6mm rifles that they could be used on. I only have X Caliber brand brakes, and I've not see a reason to try other brands as what I have work for my needs.

 

[Steve Donlon]

Based on my experience with brakes (but on smaller 20 & 22 calibers), a change in POI is expected and noted with each gun. The majority of the time the brake will reduce or tighten up the groups some, a little bit, etc., but the improvements are consistent. All of my brakes are sized for 6mm, as I do have a couple 6mm rifles that they could be used on. I only have X Caliber brand brakes, and I've not see a reason to try other brands as what I have work for my needs.

I think the ones that did not work, were for 30 cal or less and smaller in size. They did not make a brake for 6.5. The two that shot exactly the same, but looked much different , let the same volume of muzzle gas escape the brake. I think that makes a big difference. And they are both heavier to match the heavy barrel. And the difference was dramatic. Just a matter of harmonics from way off to where it needs to be, in the extreme

 

[Steve Donlon]

These are 2 groups with the new brake at 500 yards. with 2 different bullets. The old brake was no where near this accurate

 

[Rob01]

The difference in a .30 brake versus a 6.5 brake on a 6.5 won’t be noticeable. What you are noticing is just the different brake design and how they were made. Some brakes work better than others. Just the way it is. I have used .30 brakes on everything down to .223 and have used 6mm specific brakes of the same make on the same gun and they feel the same whether .30 or 6mm.

How much they shift from the past one when you put it on is irrelevant as you will just rezero anyways. You must have bought an old Little Bastard as the Gen 3 and 4 have holes on top to keep down muzzle rise.

 

[Steve Donlon]

The difference in a .30 brake versus a 6.5 brake on a 6.5 won’t be noticeable. What you are noticing is just the different brake design and how they were made. Some brakes work better than others. Just the way it is. I have used .30 brakes on everything down to .223 and have used 6mm specific brakes of the same make on the same gun and they feel the same whether .30 or 6mm.

How much they shift from the past one when you put it on is irrelevant as you will just rezero anyways. You must have bought an old Little Bastard as the Gen 3 and 4 have holes on top to keep down muzzle rise.

It is a gen 2 , I think there is more to it than you think with different barrels.

 

[Rob01]

It is a gen 2 , I think there is more to it than you think with different barrels.

Yeah the older Gen 2 doesn’t have the holes.

I have used many different brakes on many different barrels in different calibers in matches for many years. There isn’t. The brake caliber difference has very little to do with it. It comes down more to brake design for recoil reduction.

 

[ELR LVR]

I've found, the more surface area the brake offers for the gases to slam against
The more effective it is
--------------------------
As such, I like "Tank" brakes
I also do like some sort of slot or holes in the top to mitigate muzzle jump.

I have NOT, however changed brakes around to test differences in accuracy....
.....This may be a good idea
I do usually test without brake first / then with brake
If it does not shoot AT LEAST as good as before then I go without brake
-------------------------
I might also add I have tried expensive $200 brakes
and some very good Ebay $50 brakes
Both were just as effective if the ebay brake was machined well and made here in USA
Nowadays with CNC equipment, a brake is a pretty easy item to make so should not cost the
$200 or more some are charging, Unless it's Ti
I do like my Ti brakes very much

 

[SKWERLZ]

The difference in a .30 brake versus a 6.5 brake on a 6.5 won’t be noticeable. What you are noticing is just the different brake design and how they were made. Some brakes work better than others. Just the way it is. I have used .30 brakes on everything down to .223 and have used 6mm specific brakes of the same make on the same gun and they feel the same whether .30 or 6mm.

How much they shift from the past one when you put it on is irrelevant as you will just rezero anyways. You must have bought an old Little Bastard as the Gen 3 and 4 have holes on top to keep down muzzle rise.

This.

 

[Rob01]

I've found, the more surface area the brake offers for the gases to slam against
The more effective it is
--------------------------
As such, I like "Tank" brakes
I also do like some sort of slot or holes in the top to mitigate muzzle jump.

I have NOT, however changed brakes around to test differences in accuracy....
.....This may be a good idea
I do usually test without brake first / then with brake
If it does not shoot AT LEAST as good as before then I go without brake
-------------------------
I might also add I have tried expensive $200 brakes
and some very good Ebay $50 brakes
Both were just as effective if the ebay brake was machined well and made here in USA
Nowadays with CNC equipment, a brake is a pretty easy item to make so should not cost the
$200 or more some are charging, Unless it's Ti
I do like my Ti brakes very much

If you want to spend money on a brake try this one. lol People love them but if I am using something that size and weight on my muzzle it will be a suppressor. lol

chad – tuner muzzle brake – WITHOUT WARNING

www.strikewithoutwarning.com

There is an interesting paragraph in their product description though. They did testing to get this and that low of a difference is not felt in the shoulder.

“Comes in 243 (.288), 264 (.309), 308 (.353) and .338 (.383) bore sizes and works with all short action and long action cartridges (testing is underway to see just how big we can go). Designed to have any bore size, bored out up to a maximum .338 caliber by a gunsmith if needed (.383 inches diameter). We run a minimum of 45 thousandths overbore for tolerance stacking and manufacturing clearances. 45 thou overbore results in 0.2% performance loss compared to 20 thou overbore.”

 

[ELR LVR]

If you want to spend money on a brake try this one. lol People love them but if I am using something that size and weight on my muzzle it will be a suppressor. lol

chad – tuner muzzle brake – WITHOUT WARNING

www.strikewithoutwarning.com

There is an interesting paragraph in their product description though. They did testing to get this and that low of a difference is not felt in the shoulder.

“Comes in 243 (.288), 264 (.309), 308 (.353) and .338 (.383) bore sizes and works with all short action and long action cartridges (testing is underway to see just how big we can go). Designed to have any bore size, bored out up to a maximum .338 caliber by a gunsmith if needed (.383 inches diameter). We run a minimum of 45 thousandths overbore for tolerance stacking and manufacturing clearances. 45 thou overbore results in 0.2% performance loss compared to 20 thou overbore.”

For the price of that, I think I'd go with a can.
None of my guns even NEED, a brake, I just throw them on cuz I got a lathe and I can and they look neat

 

[SKWERLZ]

For the price of that, I think I'd go with a can.
None of my guns even NEED, a brake, I just throw them on cuz I got a lathe and I can and they look neat

If you’re quite competitive in prs and in the running for real prizes the cost of the brake is a decent investment.

 

[Rob01]

If you’re quite competitive in prs and in the running for real prizes the cost of the brake is a decent investment.

Yeah I was just making a joke. Those CHAD brakes do work great and a lot of people are moving to them.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Yeah I was just making a joke. Those CHAD brakes do work great and a lot of people are moving to them.

Yep
The chad and botnia are both really expensive.

 

[Steve Donlon]

Yeah I was just making a joke. Those CHAD brakes do work great and a lot of people are moving to them.

It is no joke at all. The mores surface area you have the better it will work. Having a larger exit hole in the brake does make a difference if you get every think else in tune with a smaller one. You can tune to different situations. What ever works for you brother. I mean no disrespect and am sure you know what works for you.

 

[Rob01]

It is no joke at all. The mores surface area you have the better it will work. Having a larger exit hole in the brake does make a difference if you get every think else in tune with a smaller one. You can tune to different situations. What ever works for you brother. I mean no disrespect and am sure you know what works for you.

It was a joke about the price I was making.

And the hole difference will not be the problem but length and weight will effect that tune more. I have changed the same brake but with a difference sized hole and made no difference. If you have 4 different brakes then the hole size is the last thing effecting a tune on a known shooting rifle. And even then you just adjust the load a little and you are back in tune.

 

[Enosiophobia]

Radial Ported Tuner Brakes

Note: Tuner weight adjusts over top of barrel. On 1" tuners the barrel diameter has to be under 1 inch to fit. On 7/8" tuners the barrel diameter has to be under .875 inch to fit. on 3/4" tuners the barrel diameter has to be under .750 inch to fit. Please specify the caliber in "ORDER SPECIAL...

www.harrellsprecision.com

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

If, looking for a Good "Hunting Brake" where you can, "Get By" with, Ear Plugs as, a Shooter, I Highly recommend, the NEWLY Designed PVA Back Country or Jet Blast models as,..
They Direct, the muzzle Blast / CONCUSSION, Away from, the Shooter "Better" than, MOST other, Brakes !
Finally, Somebody Put some real THOUGHT,.. into, Brake Design !
You'll Lose about, 5% of Recoil reduction over other, NOISEY Brakes But they still Have, a LIGHT,.. Recoil impulse !
My PVA B C Brake, has a .30 Cal Hole in muzzle and it, Works / "shoots",.. FINE !

 

[Rob01]

Adding a tuner is definitely an option, especially if using factory ammo, as I use some ATS tuners on mine and you can put whatever brake you want over it or even a suppressor. Radial brakes don’t have near the recoil reduction as the ones he is talking about. PVA brakes just mentioned work great too. That’s one below but a Jet Blast model.

 

[Steve Donlon]

It was a joke about the price I was making.

And the hole difference will not be the problem but length and weight will effect that tune more. I have changed the same brake but with a difference sized hole and made no difference. If you have 4 different brakes then the hole size is the last thing effecting a tune on a known shooting rifle. And even then you just adjust the load a little and you are back in tune.

I understand, you have probably done a lot of tuning for your loads and so maybe the size of the hole has the least affect. But the load I shot on Thursday where 130 gr. Berger OTM and Sierra 130 gr. ELDm bullets with no load work at all . Both seated at 2.80" because that just looked right. 41.7grs of 4451 because the load book said that was the max while the Sierra load book said 43.7 was max for the TMK bullets. So I figured I was safe. The brass is virgin Sig brass that has been sitting around my garage for a few years. I had no idea what to expect. I only wanted to see what the elevation for the 130gr. bullets would be at 500, 800 and 1000 compared to my long range loads with 147 and 144 gr. bullets. The only thing I changed was the muzzle brake. And all my loads in that barrel came alive compared to the old Cadex MX1 brake.The ones with the bigger holes and less volume area did not. What can I say, you have your method and I have mine. What ever works. I start off with what I think will work.I and have never done a ladder test because I'm not consistent enough to trust it. I just figure it out a different way. For me the size of the exit hole does matter. Why would the new Fat Bastard have those little holes in the top of their new brakes with a little brass plug to put in them to help tune a load if it did not matter? Everything matters. How much depends on what else it is effecting. If every thing else is good, maybe not much.