MTAP (Meplat Trimming and Pointing)

[Alex Wheeler]

Meplat diameter will make a big difference in vertical poi. Not so much in windage. Meplat diameter should be determined by accuracy testing not ballistics.

 

[paulT]

whats typical BC precentage increase for the 200.20x Hybrid bullets for FTR At 2,650fps when bullets trimmed/pointed with the MTAP Unit verses non pointed/trimmed bullets.

 

[WSnyder]

whats typical BC precentage increase for the 200.20x Hybrid bullets for FTR At 2,650fps when bullets trimmed/pointed with the MTAP Unit verses non pointed/trimmed bullets.

I'll make a bet he's more interested in uniformity and accuracy over an increase in BC.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

People need to stop thinking in terms of BC and starting thinking in terms of bullet flight. Pointing can either help a bullet or hurt it. Even with the BC increase they can shoot worse in the wind if the bullet doesnt like a small meplat. You dont see points on airplanes. Smaller is not always better. The right size, and uniform is the goal. I have some customers that increase the meplat. Hurts BC but shoots smaller.

 

[WSnyder]

I recall Powell River Labs (pretty sure it was them) doing some doppler testing on a sleek new bullet with a needle point. It didn't fly worth crap. They filed the tip down during the test session and voila! The darn thing started to fly like it was supposed to.

 

[Jefferson]

People need to stop thinking in terms of BC and starting thinking in terms of bullet flight. Pointing can either help a bullet or hurt it. Even with the BC increase they can shoot worse in the wind if the bullet doesnt like a small meplat. You dont see points on airplanes. Smaller is not always better. The right size, and uniform is the goal. I have some customers that increase the meplat. Hurts BC but shoots smaller.

correct and after decades they will still not understand

jeff

 

[paulT]

I'll make a bet he's more interested in uniformity and accuracy over an increase in BC.

I agree
BC Bullet Uniformity would be a much more important factor for longrange precision than the actual BC Increase from bullet Pointing process
Just interested to see what typical percentage range of bc increase could be achieved with the MTAP System with for example the 200.20x when loaded to 2,650fps.

 

[Bryan Blake]

The cutter head for the MTAP and the triple radii tangent cutter. Rocket science showing nose profiles for above MACH speeds (just like our projectiles). The angle cut we have been testing for months on the left, out of the box bullet in the middle and triple radii on the right shown on the optical comparator. No press type of pointing die has the versatility and profile options that the MTAP has.

 

[sdbob]

Great barrels are being made in greater numbers than great bullets. Looking forward to the MTAP to help with this. At least this might help that new lot of bullets that is sub par at the meplat.

 

[Bryan Blake]

50 machines shipped to customers all over the world, with another 75+ ordered and being built now.

 

[Rick300]

Bryan, I have a question for you. I always thought that a hollow point "flew" better than a true point. What does your testing show?

 

[searcher]

People need to stop thinking in terms of BC and starting thinking in terms of bullet flight. Pointing can either help a bullet or hurt it. Even with the BC increase they can shoot worse in the wind if the bullet doesnt like a small meplat. You dont see points on airplanes. Smaller is not always better. The right size, and uniform is the goal. I have some customers that increase the meplat. Hurts BC but shoots smaller.

As far as I know - putting the small flat on the meplat after pointing has always (?) been the preferred method. The smallest groups at distance I have ever shot were with pointed bullets in my 6BR. I agree one does not want a pointy tip.

 

[Bryan Blake]

Bryan, I have a question for you. I always thought that a hollow point "flew" better than a true point. What does your testing show?

Show me a rocket or airplane that has a hole in the nose... What most are confusing us that you do not want to swage point to the amount where you are closing the meplat hole as if you do, you have distorted the bullet jacket and separated it from the lead core more than likely.

As far as aerodynamics either supersonic, trans sonic or subsonic, there is no evidence in the aeronautical theory of nose design that ever suggests you want a void in the leading profile.

 

[Steve Jennings]

OAL plays pretty much nothing to BC, but meplat diameter is huge.
I would worry with your approach about so high a transition from turning to ogive

Mike, Have another look at Hornady's research photos of air density re boundary layer.

 

[Jet]

 

[Bryan Blake]

View attachment 1619332

Because Berger bullets have jet engines in the nose....

 

[shoot4fun]

View attachment 1619332

Air goes in the hole in the nose BUT it also, like a hot habanero, makes gas in the middle and blows out the a$$. Bullets don't work that way.

 

[BKA]

When airplanes spin 200,000+ RPM in flight, airplane analogies will apply, otherwise they're funny

 

[Jet]

Bryan

You stated "Show me a rocket or airplane that has a hole in the nose..." So I showed you one. Sometimes I think Berger 108s have something special in them. Mayber not a jet engine but there is something special about them.

 

[davidjoe]

Match .22 bullets approaching $1.00 a shot are blunt but uniform. That level of rimfire competition is thriving, too. XAct and Midas are sold out, guns are equally impressive. Lapua and Eley definitely don’t believe any accuracy is sacrificed, but, no truly high speed vehicles, even ground based record holders, can do what they do without an extremely pointy nose. A lathe with solids is probably the only one-step production process, and Lehigh has a .375 solid over 1.0 G1 that otherwise I don’t think is exceeded, until a .50 twice as heavy.

Our long range matches are the beginning of where the benefits definitely show in even the mildest wind. I have seen 180’s processed so extensively the drop at 1,000 bears out a G1 BC well over .8. That shooter was a dedicated .284 man, but a Saum would have been frightful.

An interesting experiment in sighters or in testing to is to shoot a few lower impacting bullets with the same hold, in the wind, same gun. They don’t just strike lower, they follow the “Christmas Tree” pattern of some reticles, proving just how much more susceptible to wind deflection lower BC, or same BC lower velocity projectiles, are. (This test is the equivalent of a dynamometer to an engine, it’s an eye opening, black and white litmus test showing how much better wind calls have to be if velocity or BC (two side of the same coin) is traded in. No, it’s not 1:1 because you will recenter up, but It was truly shocking to see downloaded 190 A-Tips strike lower at 1,000 than 195 tipped EOL’s but still shoot “inside” them nevertheless, it is worth trying these experiments).

Perhaps it’s purely academic, but if F-Class long range matches were suddenly shot at a mile instead of 1,000, (which is the functional equivalent of every match being like the windiest 3% of all matches) two or three more higher “gears” would have to be wrung out of guns in BC.