Most tolerant 1,000 yard cartridge ?

[Hammer]

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There are many different cartridges that have been touted for 1,000 yard competition and have won some matches.

What cartridge is the most tolerant for 1,000 yard shooting ?

That is, not necessarily the one cartridge that an expert could use to win.

But the one that ten different gun builders, handloaders, and shooters could shoot the highest average score at 1,000 yards.

What bullet and load has been the most successful with this tolerant cartridge ?

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[Bob3700]

OK, Here is my opinion in answer to your question.

First I am going to assume that you are a novice at 1K shooting but are familiar with at least some precision loading techniques. It doesn't matter how accurate the cartridge is, if you cannot load it to it's potential, then your results at 1K will reflect the quality of your ammo.

So on to the cartridges.

In your shoes I would pick either the 308 Win. or the 6mm BR. (or if you are up to it an Imp. BR)

Either of these cartridges is easy to load for, they are basically very accurate numbers that you should not have to struggle to find an excellent load.

Each will shoot as many Xs as you can hold. Both have long bbl lifes so that you can learn to read the wind and not worry about replacing a bbl every year.

For 1K shooting, heavy bullets in the 308 (185-210 gr) will be the order of the day. Powder in the range of IMR 4064 will be the ticket with Winchester or Lapua brass.

The BR based cartridges: A straight BR will be great for 600 yd but a little short on horsepower at 1K. Great accuracy but more wind drift. A BRX or Dasher will solve that problem for you. 105-107 gr bullets powered by Varget in Lapua brass will be the best formula.

If you cannot shoot good scores when the wind is within your skill set, it isn't the cartridges fault.

You asked - there is my .02 worth.

Bob

 

[Hammer]

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Thank you very much for your thoughts.

Would love to have the ideas of others too.




Have been hanging around benchrest since the cartridge was the 222 and everyone shot sleeved Remington actions.

They used to hold some serious competitions at the Volunteer Rifle and Pistol Club in Knoxville, TN, which was barely a mile from my home back then. Hung out there everyday after school. Was taught to handload by the local competitors there.

Fred Sinclair built me a rifle then using a new-fangled McMillan fiberglass stock and I had a new Leupold 24X scope. I started using Sierra 52 grain HPBT MatchKings before getting my own bullet making dies.

Also have a falling-block single-shot in 219 Donaldson Wasp with a scope about as long as the rifle barrel.

Have some match grade rifles in 308 and in 6mmBR as well as 6-250. So maybe I could start with them. The 6's have 8-inch twists.


Have never competed in the rifle matches but have watched a lot of them.


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[1000yardstare]

Hard to argue with the .308 Win/7.62 NATO loaded with Varget and 155 gr Match bullets. Mainly because so many shooters use it in Palma and F/TR. Probably more research has gone into the 155 gr .308 competition bullet than any other. Excellent accuracy, moderate recoil, long barrel life, a ready supply of reloading components and the availablity of winning out-of-the-box competition rifles makes the .308 a very good choice for the "average" shooter.

As for F(Open) you will get as many opinions as shooters. The 6.5/284 has been hot for a while mainly because of the Savage Target rifles but it is hard on barrels. There seems to be a recent swing to 7mm while others like myself prefer 6mm.

I did very well three years ago in F(O) with a stock Savage 12FV in .243 Win. The next year did even better with a 6AI but that barrel lasted one season. I have seen F Classers try the 6BR at 1000 yards but they struggle on a windy day. Next year I will be shooting a variation of the .243 called the 6mm Super LR. Have the reamer and gauge and will be shipping the action to my barrel maker at the end of the month.

 

[canderson]

If you are looking for the best "gun" advantage, I would say somehting that can push a 7mm 180gr. bullet 2800+. Next, in line would be a 6.5 140gr. @ 2900. Both of these will you give almost every benefit of the high BC bullets available. The problem IMO is that 7's are a little hard to tune and it takes some time to learn how to handle the recoil and drive the rifle consistently. A 6.5x284 is a great cartridge, that is fairly easy to tune, but can run through a barrel quickly. I use a 6 dasher to shoot at 1K. IMO, it is a very good comprimise with recoil, price per round, and wind drift. Several friends are pushing either the 108 or 105 vld @ 3000+. I feel that I can shoot with any of the calibers out there on 95% of the time. I only time, I feel outgunned is a very windy day with switching winds. I would think a 6 shooting a 105 or 115 vld is the way to go. 6dasher, 6BRX, 6 super LR, 6XC, 6x47L, .243 or .243AI (last two a little harder on barrels)

 

[mikecr]

You didn't say if this is for competition, but if so I couldn't imagine a 308Win being at all competitive(it's not in IBS).

The reason the 6.5x284 has been so popular in the past is because it leaves cartridges like a 308Win in the dust ballistically.
For 1Kyd shooting you need to consider external ballistics. And that starts with the bullet. Well, it ALWAYS starts with the bullet.
Heavy 30cals win with the highest percentage not because of build or accuracy, but because of BC. Little 155s & 168s are NOT high BC bullets, and stand disadvantaged to 24/26cal bullets.
So unless you think you can outshoot the wind, the list get's way smaller.

With a bullet chosen, it's a matter of capacity to take advantage of it. In heavy 30cal, this is greater than a 308Win offers. Something like a 300WSM is in order.

Another path mentioned are the improved versions of 6br. The BRX is easiest, but if your gunbuilder prefers the Dasher, then go for it I say. Great high BC bullets with less recoil.

 

[highmaster82]

do you still live in east tn,if so oak ridge sportsmans assoc.usually has 100 yd practice on mondays.check their wedsite . BW Davis

 

[newboy]

.284 with 168s or 180s, this will be seen more and more i think , easy to shoot.
you dont have to push it realy hard to gain all of the BC needed.

Its hard to beat when the wind blows or if its flat calm.

 

[Hammer]

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do you still live in east tn

Left East Tennessee about thirty years ago.

Live in the Northern Rockies now.

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[CJ6]

My .02 300Win Mag. Not my personnel choice ,but I believe that smiths have chambered this round and it's variants in more 1000yd rifles than any other. It has enough case to push the Hvy 220-240's yet not too much case as to be too over bore.

 

[sbrabec]

.416 Barrett.... 400-grain bullet with a BC of .730 exiting the muzzle at an astonishing 3,250 feet per second. Tough to beat that!!!!!!

 

[Samdweezel05]

I would vote for the .220 swift. One of the best ever made. I think I know the person that bought the last one ever made as well.

 

[jb1000br]

220 swift and 416 Barret...seriously... ???

6mmBR, 6.5-284 300WSM - easy to deal with and no brass prep "necessary" to compete.

105 Berger VLD/107SMK in 6BR
142SMK/140 Berger VLD in 6.5
210 Berger or SMK in the WSM

all will work well at 2900fps +- 50fps in their cartridge.

YMMV,
JB

 

[Kenny474]

I would vote for the .220 swift. One of the best ever made. I think I know the person that bought the last one ever made as well.

OK, when did they stop chambering for the Swift? And when was the last time you saw one on the 1000yd line?

And as for the .416 Barrett, you obviously haven't been informed of the rules of 1K BR, as there is a limit of .338 bore last time I checked. And the .408 Chey Tac will leave the Barrett in the dust anyway.

.284, 6.5-284, 6 Dasher along with a bunch of others will perform exceptionally well at 1000yds and still comply with all the rules.

 

[Laurie]

Every one of the top 10 competitors in the F-Class World Championship individual aggregates and all eight members of the winning GB F-Class team in the team matches in the most recent FCWC round held at Bisley in July last year used 7mm cartridges, nearly all variations on the 7WSM (usually a necked down .300WSM). One or two top UK competitors have used .300 calibre magnums in recent years, but they cannot consistently match the sevens and produce more recoil. The 6.5-284 is dead in the water here for national league level shooting, which one short-range meeting (500+600yd) apart is shot entirely at distances of 800yd and above, overwhelmingly at 1,000yd. Other calibres / cartridges (6BR, 6XC, 6.5X47L etc) are simply nowhere - users are lucky to make the top half of the 'Open' results lists) and so are now very rarely seen.

The hot sevens are currently unbeatable, but performance comes at a price - barrel swaps are an expensive occurrence in the UK. The result is hardly anybody new is coming into the discipline in the 'Open' category and there is a steady drift from Open to F-TR as few people can afford two benchrest quality rifles and at least one new barrel each season. In three or four years we've gone from Open entrants outnumbering F-TR in national matches by around two to one, to parity last year, and to every meeting now having more F-TR entrants this year, sometimes many more.

Laurie,
York, England

 

[bozo699]

[quote author=jb1000br 220 swift and 416 Barret...seriously... ???

The 220 swift never was and still isn't considered a accurate cartridge!
The 416 Barret ??? I shot next to a guy in a 1k br match shooting a .338 chey tac
I had a headace for two days. I had to time my shots between his because every time he shot the concussion would knock me clear off target,next time I have to sit by somone shooting a huge muzzle broke cannon I will pack it up and take my dq!
The 6mms-6.5s-and 7mms as mentioned are what is winning. I would like to build somthing like a 7mm wsm but I don't know about recoil my 6.5*284 is almost to much.
Wayne.

 

[1000yardstare]

Laurie,
+1 on F/TR catching and passing F(O). In the Lt. Governor`s final at the Ontario Championships there are 10 F Class shooters. The ratio between F(O) and F/TR is determined by the number of entries in each division.

At the 2009 Ontarios, the ratio was 6 F(O) to 4 F/TR. At the 2010 Ontarios, the ratio was 5/5. It wouldn`t surprise me in 2011 if there are more F/TR than F(O). The longer barrel life of the .308 is definitely one of the appeals of F/TR. Fewer and fewer shooters want to get caught up in the F(O) money race.

To tell the originator of this thread he should build an XX caliber magnum that moves him 3 feet backwards with every shot is not doing that man any favours. He states he has a .308 match rifle, just right for getting started in Long Range shooting. He would be using a rifle he knows and is comfortable with.

Bill

 

[mikecr]

To tell the originator of this thread he should build an XX caliber magnum that moves him 3 feet backwards with every shot is not doing that man any favours. He states he has a .308 match rifle, just right for getting started in Long Range shooting. He would be using a rifle he knows and is comfortable with

Well, thread starter lives in America, and he might atleast review competitive American cartridges:
http://www.pa1000yard.com/wo/wotoplists.php?year=2010&cls=Light+Gun&grsc=Group&topct=ALL&send=Submit


He might also notice ZERO 308Wins at this IBS tourney.
So unless going for a pity award -just for showing up with a 308Win, it's probably not advisable to do so.

 

[GLC]

Laurie is correct, in my opinion a .284 is perfect for F class/ long range BR if cost is an issue, you should get 2 maybe 3 seasons out of it and still be competitive, we have guys with barrels with well over 2000 rnds
winning competitions. Ok recoil is to be considered but in a rifle that is properly balanced and upto weight it should not feel too much more that a .308.
Like anything you get what you pay for, a .284 will not last as long as 6br or derivative however I known which one I would pick if it's windy.
I think the recession here has hit people hard so its not surprising that open shooter have defected to FTR as the larger 7mm barrel burning cartridges are winning.
Laurie, see you at Diggle with that .223 on Saturday!

Rgds
Gary

 

[camac]

Laurie is spot on for the top level - a 7mm is what you need to win at the top level but the original poster asked what is easy to shoot, load for and get there for most average shooters. In this case there are several really good choices mentioned above and shooting standard class with a 308 with 155's is a very good learning curve. Learn to read the wind like that then step up to a 7mm and wow...
Undermentioned above is the 6.5*47 or 6.5Creedmore or 260. These can all be good (not the best but bloody good) 1000 yard cartridges. 123 Lapua Scenar (and SMK) hum out to 1000. the 130 Bergers are another good choice. You don't have to go all the way to 140/142 to do very well and they are very sweet to shoot. For a starting round I would also highly recommend 308 or one of the above 6.5's loaded with 123 Lapua Scenar doing 3050-3150fps (Plug in the figures into JBM they go alright). Very accurate and nice to shoot with good barrel life.