Most consistent/repeatable barrel for Annie rebarrel

[Brentwinkey]

Looking to do a rebarrel on an Annie 64 action. Looking to do 100yd to ELR shooting. Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels. What's everyones favorite .900 barrel including twist, and number of grooves. Thanks Brent

 

[1813benny]

Looking to do a rebarrel on an Annie 64 action. Looking to do 100yd to ELR shooting. Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels. What's everyones favorite .900 barrel including twist, and number of grooves. Thanks Brent

In no order of preference:
Shilen
Krieger
Muller (if you can wait a year or two)

1:16 or 1:16.5

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Looking to do a rebarrel on an Annie 64 action. Looking to do 100yd to ELR shooting. Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels. What's everyones favorite .900 barrel including twist, and number of grooves. Thanks Brent

I really like benchmark 3 grooves I currently have 2 match 54"s with them .900@ 26" and a Heavy reverse taper at 26" I also have a M12 with a .850@28" I am waiting on another heavy reverse taper I should get it in July

Lee

 

[doclu60]

Looking to do a rebarrel on an Annie 64 action. Looking to do 100yd to ELR shooting. Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels. What's everyones favorite .900 barrel including twist, and number of grooves. Thanks Brent

I see this is your first post, but.......I have to kind of laugh. I quote you, "Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels." Do you really think posting on a public forum this same question is going to get you something different than a "million different opinions"?

Several MFG's make some really good barrels, anyone of which can also produce a dud. There is no real definitive answer to your question. Barrel diameter is of no real consequent, as really good barrels and really not so good barrels come in all kinds of diameters.

If you look at an equipment list of National matches, ARA does this for their National matches as well as PSL, you will see most of the top shooters are using Muller, or Shilen barrels. Benchmark has a smattering of numbers as well. Grooves can be anything from 2-8. Twist will almost always be 16-16.5.

The above 3 MFG's have the best track record in BIG TIME rimfire benchrest, none of which is shot at anything beyond 50 yds/meters.

Scott

 

[Brentwinkey]

I see this is your first post, but.......I have to kind of laugh. I quote you, "Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels." Do you really think posting on a public forum this same question is going to get you something different than a "million different opinions"?

Several MFG's make some really good barrels, anyone of which can also produce a dud. There is no real definitive answer to your question. Barrel diameter is of no real consequent, as really good barrels and really not so good barrels come in all kinds of diameters.

If you look at an equipment list of National matches, ARA does this for their National matches as well as PSL, you will see most of the top shooters are using Muller, or Shilen barrels. Benchmark has a smattering of numbers as well. Grooves can be anything from 2-8. Twist will almost always be 16-16.5.

The above 3 MFG's have the best track record in BIG TIME rimfire benchrest, none of which is shot at anything beyond 50 yds/meters.

Scott

Hahaha I thought maybe I could narrow it down actually making a post. O well I tried. Best info I figured would be bench rest guys. Prs/nrl 22 shooters are still trying to figure out what's best but some help and research in to bench rest world I figured would be a good place to start. Any advice on twist rates for shooting past 100 to 300yds mainly...seems like 1-:14 or 1:15 be the best middle ground. Also any validity to the groove count and cold weather. We shoot from -20 to 90 degrees. Looking around sounds like 2-3 grooves for some reason don't shoot the best in the cold. Thanks Brent

 

[Brentwinkey]

I see this is your first post, but.......I have to kind of laugh. I quote you, "Looking around and I get a million different opinions on who makes the best rimfire barrels." Do you really think posting on a public forum this same question is going to get you something different than a "million different opinions"?

Several MFG's make some really good barrels, anyone of which can also produce a dud. There is no real definitive answer to your question. Barrel diameter is of no real consequent, as really good barrels and really not so good barrels come in all kinds of diameters.

If you look at an equipment list of National matches, ARA does this for their National matches as well as PSL, you will see most of the top shooters are using Muller, or Shilen barrels. Benchmark has a smattering of numbers as well. Grooves can be anything from 2-8. Twist will almost always be 16-16.5.

The above 3 MFG's have the best track record in BIG TIME rimfire benchrest, none of which is shot at anything beyond 50 yds/meters.

Scott

.900 is just what I would stick with... biggest diameter that'll fit in the stocks I have without messing with the barrel channel. 24-25in seems to be the best balance of length/weight/rifle balance

 

[doclu60]

Hahaha I thought maybe I could narrow it down actually making a post. O well I tried. Best info I figured would be bench rest guys. Prs/nrl 22 shooters are still trying to figure out what's best but some help and research in to bench rest world I figured would be a good place to start. Any advice on twist rates for shooting past 100 to 300yds mainly...seems like 1-:14 or 1:15 be the best middle ground. Also any validity to the groove count and cold weather. We shoot from -20 to 90 degrees. Looking around sounds like 2-3 grooves for some reason don't shoot the best in the cold. Thanks Brent

Brent,
Please remember, each discipline has it's own unique quirks. You have had 3 members respond. Two of which are serious RFBR shooters, Lee and myself. The third member, Ken (1813benny) is a position guy. Perhaps others will chime in about the long distance stuff. I personally have no experience in that niche.

IMO, accuracy in cold weather will be lot dependent. I have an excellent lot of Eley Match that shoots great in cold weather, but not worth a darn in warm-hot weather. Most top tier match ammo starts to open up in temps that drop below 50 degrees. That is a general statement, and needs testing to prove it out. Sometimes you find a diamond in the dirt, like my lot of Match. I have tested thousands of lots and the majority shoot better in warmer temps.

Your gunsmith will determine the finished length of the barrel, according to how it slugs when it's fitted. If your smith does not slug when fitting, find a new smith.

I only disagree with one brand of barrel that has been mentioned, and that would be Krieger. In light of that, I do not shoot that guy's discipline. Perhaps in position shooting they are used. I can assure you they are not messed with in serious RFBR. IMO that brands forte is CF barrels, which they do very well.

Scott

 

[grauhanen]

Any advice on twist rates for shooting past 100 to 300yds mainly...seems like 1-:14 or 1:15 be the best middle ground.

Is there any reliable evidence that twists other than the standard 1:16 perform better as distance increases?

Is there any reason to believe that what produces the best results at 50 or 100 won't continue to do very well beyond?

 

[kevin nevius]

Brent,
Please remember, each discipline has it's own unique quirks. You have had 3 members respond. Two of which are serious RFBR shooters, Lee and myself. The third member, Ken (1813benny) is a position guy. Perhaps others will chime in about the long distance stuff. I personally have no experience in that niche.

IMO, accuracy in cold weather will be lot dependent. I have an excellent lot of Eley Match that shoots great in cold weather, but not worth a darn in warm-hot weather. Most top tier match ammo starts to open up in temps that drop below 50 degrees. That is a general statement, and needs testing to prove it out. Sometimes you find a diamond in the dirt, like my lot of Match. I have tested thousands of lots and the majority shoot better in warmer temps.

Your gunsmith will determine the finished length of the barrel, according to how it slugs when it's fitted. If your smith does not slug when fitting, find a new smith.

I only disagree with one brand of barrel that has been mentioned, and that would be Krieger. In light of that, I do not shoot that guy's discipline. Perhaps in position shooting they are used. I can assure you they are not messed with in serious RFBR. IMO that brands forte is CF barrels, which they do very well.

Scott

Good morning Scott:

My apologies, but I have to disagree on a few points (this is simply my opinion):

Krieger barrels are exceptional, three of my National titles were won with them - and they have been some of the best blanks I have ever fitted and tested. If you have not tried them (and I am guessing you have not), you should. I know cut rifled barrels have been dismissed in the BR world (at least according to the WLM), but my real world experience has been far different.

And another BR myth (again in my humble opinion) is the whole "slugging" idea. All slugging will tell any smith is the direction and amount of taper. That's it. Anyone who tells you they can tell how well a barrel will shoot, or EXACTLY where to crown it is lying to you. Actual testing / shooting is the only measure of crown position. Personally, I finish blanks as long as they allow (given the proper setbacks for lapping runout), and test them - setting them back incrementally until workable performance is found. And I have seen plenty of blanks ruined by improper slugging.

Just my $.02.............

All the best,

kev

 

[1813benny]

Brent,
Please remember, each discipline has it's own unique quirks. You have had 3 members respond. Two of which are serious RFBR shooters, Lee and myself. The third member, Ken (1813benny) is a position guy. Perhaps others will chime in about the long distance stuff. I personally have no experience in that niche.

IMO, accuracy in cold weather will be lot dependent. I have an excellent lot of Eley Match that shoots great in cold weather, but not worth a darn in warm-hot weather. Most top tier match ammo starts to open up in temps that drop below 50 degrees. That is a general statement, and needs testing to prove it out. Sometimes you find a diamond in the dirt, like my lot of Match. I have tested thousands of lots and the majority shoot better in warmer temps.

Your gunsmith will determine the finished length of the barrel, according to how it slugs when it's fitted. If your smith does not slug when fitting, find a new smith.

I only disagree with one brand of barrel that has been mentioned, and that would be Krieger. In light of that, I do not shoot that guy's discipline. Perhaps in position shooting they are used. I can assure you they are not messed with in serious RFBR. IMO that brands forte is CF barrels, which they do very well.

Scott

Scott
One of the reasons that I added Krieger to the mix is that the OP was interested in shooting 100 yds and also ELR. Cut rifled barrels such as the Krieger and the ones used by Vudoo (Ace is the name I believe) have demonstrated some good results for that purpose.

Aside from this, I currently use a Krieger that is exceptional - on par with the best barrel I have ever used.

Regards,
That Guy - aka Ken

 

[kevin nevius]

Is there any reliable evidence that twists other than the standard 1:16 perform better as distance increases?

Is there any reason to believe that what produces the best results at 50 or 100 won't continue to do very well beyond?

That's a great question.

With the advent of popularity of the PRS and other rimfire sports, comes the opportunity to learn something. When BR became more popular, there was a spike in innovation that carried through to all of the other rimfire disciplines (focusing on 50 yard / 50 meter performance), and I would imagine as more people begin to experiment with these new events at longer ranges the same will happen.

I shoot long range highpower events, and some of my friends in the sport are beginning to play around with hand loaded rimfire ammunition and fast twist barrels. Its pretty interesting stuff - unfortunately I can't comment, I have no experience beyond 100 yards with a rimfire.

The 16 twist is as old as time though, and seems optimal for 40 grain bullets - again, at least out to 100 yards, but that doesn't mean there isn't something better out there. I just don't remember anyone challenging the idea (until now!).

All the best,

kev

 

[VLNBYR]

Here's my advice. Get off the internet and go to some matches where there are shooters doing what you want to do. Get together with the top guys there and ask what they are using and then do likewise. No need to reinvent the wheel nor plow the same field more than once.

 

[Tony K Harper]

Here's my advice. Get off the internet and go to some matches where there are shooters doing what you want to do. Get together with the top guys there and ask what they are using and then do likewise. No need to reinvent the wheel nor plow the same field more than once.

John,

You said it as good as it could be said. Spot on!

In my opinion, notice I said opinion, shooting a rimfire beyond 100 yards outdoors is not much different from rolling dice.

Yea, sure it can be fun, and you can sometimes come up aces, but it is anything but precision.

Interesting note: The first IR 50/50 250-25X target was shot by Bill Pippin using a cut rifled barrel.

Never has been repeated by any other cut rifled barrel.

It just goes to show you anything can and will happen.

TKH (4628)

 

[Brentwinkey]

Here's my advice. Get off the internet and go to some matches where there are shooters doing what you want to do. Get together with the top guys there and ask what they are using and then do likewise. No need to reinvent the wheel nor plow the same field more than once.

I have shot a decent amount with my vudoo at 0-550yds in prs style competitions. Just here to get some advice knowledge from the bench rest crowd. Looking to build a new Annie prs rig. I talk and thrown ideas around with some of the best in the NRL 22/prs world but seems to be we are all still learning what's best and experimenting.

 

[Brentwinkey]

Scott
One of the reasons that I added Krieger to the mix is that the OP was interested in shooting 100 yds and also ELR. Cut rifled barrels such as the Krieger and the ones used by Vudoo (Ace is the name I believe) have demonstrated some good results for that purpose.

Aside from this, I currently use a Krieger that is exceptional - on par with the best barrel I have ever used.

Regards,
That Guy - aka Ken

All my CF rifles have Kriegers...I'm thinking of i can get them to do a 1:14-1:15 twist 22rf I'll be adding another Krieger to my safe. All my CF rifles shoot especially well with Kriegers fitted...my vudoo is currently get a Krieger 1:16 I won fitted and we'll see how that goes.

 

[Brentwinkey]

Is there any reliable evidence that twists other than the standard 1:16 perform better as distance increases?

Is there any reason to believe that what produces the best results at 50 or 100 won't continue to do very well beyond?

Seems to be some evidence...we had applied ballistics come to a big 22 prs style shoot in MN and bring there radar setups and from 0-200ish everyones rifle was close to the same but past that to the 500yd burm we were shooting at to get our ballistic profile the faster twist rifles had better bc and bullet stability. Talking with the AB team they are still experimenting and researching 22rf as elr distances and are building test rigs to verify findings

 

[grauhanen]

Seems to be some evidence...we had applied ballistics come to a big 22 prs style shoot in MN and bring there radar setups and from 0-200ish everyones rifle was close to the same but past that to the 500yd burm we were shooting at to get our ballistic profile the faster twist rifles had better bc and bullet stability. Talking with the AB team they are still experimenting and researching 22rf as elr distances and are building test rigs to verify findings

The question of evidence is important.

How can results at longer distances such as 300 to 500 yards be compared with the confidence that it's apples to apples?

There's tremendous potential for misleading target data to due to, among other things, the vargaries of air movement between shooter and target at long distances.

 

[10XSHOOTER]

Call Mark Penrod in Indiana. He put a Shilen Ratchet 1-16 on my F-Class rifle. It's 26" with a Harrels Tuner. I can't out shoot it!

 

[Brentwinkey]

The question of evidence is important.

How can results at longer distances such as 300 to 500 yards be compared with the confidence that it's apples to apples?

There's tremendous potential for misleading target data to due to, among other things, the vargaries of air movement between shooter and target at long distances.

Definitely variables but I guess it's the best evidence/information I have at this time...I guess apples to apples is maybe a stretch but maybe crab apples to apples lol...the testing was a large group of shooters get radar data at that particular shoot...center x was the main ammo used amongst the competition and AB's team noticed some better bc numbers out of the faster twist barrels at distance...how significant the improvement is up in the air...they are in the process of testing 22rf/subsonic bullet flight by talking with them...I'm definitely not nearly smart enough to be a ballistician but what they were mentioning made sense. I'm just a trigger puller and dig holes for a living lol

 

[Brentwinkey]

Is there any reliable evidence that twists other than the standard 1:16 perform better as distance increases?

Is there any reason to believe that what produces the best results at 50 or 100 won't continue to do very well beyond?

The winner of that match shoots for AB. The winner of the elr portion is a good friend...used a fairly new vudoo with a new fitted 1:10twist shilen and R50SC ammo. King of .28 mile is the match...we attempt to break the standing record for 3 cold bore shots a 12x12in plate... currently it's 520ish yds last I checked