More Forster FL sizing die weirdness

[BoydAllen]

The pause lets the neck take a set at its new diameter. If you compare turning mandrel fit, with and without the pause, I think that you will find those without to be tighter. One more thing...I have expanded necks, and checked their fit, put them aside to turn later, and when I did, find that they had tightened up. Another thing, if you compare cases, from the same set, that are sized with minimal lube and no pause at the top of the stroke with others that are generously lubed and held at the top of the ram stroke for a few seconds, I think that you will find that the latter have slightly more bump.

 

[bozo699]

Boyd,
I am heading for the loading room now and will give it a try, thank you for the insight. Do you size with or without a button in your die and do you use a mandrel as a general rule? I have been having good luck just using a Redding, Forster, or Wilson bushing dies w/no button or mandrels, I do own mandrels and the die for them and use them when prepping brass but not as a general rule when reloading. Do you think I should be using them and if so why. As usual I appreciate your knowledge.
Wayne.

 

[JabaliHunter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the "expander" mandrel that you need, not the "turning" mandrel? I would have thought that using the turning mandrel to expand the neck would make seating the bullet much harder with more neck tension.

 

[RonAKA]

Good discussion. Also, don't forget Forster sells oversized expander balls if you want less tension but still want to use an expander to ensure ID uniformity, or just give the ID that one last tweek for final size.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/categoryShopping.asp?category=22705&catid=19938

 

[bozo699]

Ron,
I didn't know that,thanks for the site.
Wayne.

 

[jmatters]

I had a Forster neck die honed, but it caused other problems. I sent it to Jim Carstensen who fixed it so well (converted it to a bushing die) that I had him custom hone a Redding body die and make it into a bushing die as well. Mine is a no-turn .308 chamber, and I can now full length resize with that bushing die, and not have to lube the cases. (Use the TN bushings) They are the most precise cases I've ever sized, because there is no lube to affect it. I can resize cases to -.0015" all day long, and necksize whatever tension I want, to whatever depth I want. And no more buttons to pull the necks askew.
So, my suggestion is send some fired brass and a Redding body die to Carstensen. He'll send you back a little piece of magic.

 

[bozo699]

jmatters,
How do you achieve any depth you want? is his bushings different than Redding, Wilson,or Forster bushings? I would be interested in these dies if they size clear to the neck shoulder junction as other bushing dies will not! thanks.
Wayne.

 

[jmatters]

My die has enough adjustment in the bushing to run it all the way down to the neck/shoulder. I try to keep it just off that junction. I use flat base bullets, so I try to add a bit of neck tension by sizing almost all of the neck. But I don't want the bushing to interfere with how the body die adjusts headspace. (If you don't have a Mo's gauge, get one! Best measuring device I've ever used.)

 

[bozo699]

jmatters,
I just figured out last week what LOL means, I am not very good @ this new fangled text abreviations, what is a Mo,s gauge?
Wayne.

 

[jmatters]

A Mo's Gauge is a headspace gauge. It a 2 piece unit. Insert your case in one half, screw it into the other half, and it is calibrated in thousandths to tell you the headspace of that brass. A friend gave me one of his "old" ones 15 years ago, and I use it every time I reload. RCBS makes a cheesy version of it.
My 3 308's all headspace differently. My Garand brass comes out +.008, so I resize to +.005. (On that brass I do use a button - My M1 rifle is tough on brass necks, so I want to be surer about roundness than about neck tension and concentricity.) My Model 70 brass comes out +.001, so I just nudge it back to -.001, or I neck size only. My BR gun comes out +.006, and I use the Carstensen die to FL size everytime to bring it back to +.0048. (Ok, that's a guess, because the Mo's guage is not calibrated in 10,000ths, but it is slightly less than .005.)
Mo's Competitor Supply
34 Delmar Drive
Brookfield, CT 06804
(203) 775-1013 FAX (203) 775-1010
(Owned by Mo Defina. Gunsmithing services, complete supply of rifle competition equipment)

 

[in2deep]

Do you get away without lubing your cases because the tolerances are tighter in your custom Carstenson die or hardness or?

 

[Jayman_10x]

fitter,
A few weeks back RonAKA and X500 helped me out with a problem, I was getting excessive runout and some taper. Out of my chamber my brass was showing less than .001 and usually less then .0005 but when I resized it .003-.007 runout. Found out a fired neck was .282 and I was sizing with a .269 bushing, my loaded round was .272, .012 was just to much to size all @ once, from the suggestions I got from X500 and Ron I sized in several steps with different sized bushings and also I relized if I sized 1/2 way then rotated the case 180 deg then finish resizing I was able to drop the runout to .001-.002 I figured that was just a bandage so I had my reamer reground, pulled my barrel and am in the process of rechambering. I know this isn't your exact problem but it may be something as simple as that. What kind of sizing lube are you using? and how much?
Wayne.

Wayne,

Thanks for the insight. I neck size with bushings too and never considered that issue before. A lot of good information here.....

 

[jmatters]

I think it's a combination of things. First off, the Carstensen dies give new meaning to the word SMOOTH. I don't know what surface finish Jim hones to, but it feels like it must be glass-like. Second, as you can tell, I'm not moving a lot of brass around, and I'm using Lapua cases. Third, the tumbling media I have is one of those that contains a bit of a powdery polish. Sorry, but it's so old I forgot where I got it from and what's in it. But I think it is leaving enough of a dry film to help "lube" the case. I just ran about 160 cases after tumbling and there was no chatter or "grabbi-ness" in the press on any of them. All went in and out as if they were lubed.