MOLY VS NAKED BULLET

[kochie]

AS A RULE WHAT PERCENTAGE OF POWDER DO YOU REDUCE WHEN YOU GO FROM A MOLY TO A NAKED BULLET.

 

[5spd]

Don't know the rule or if there is even any, but in my .223s that I have been shooting moly bullets in since 84 I load the same for naked.
Course Im not at the hot end of powder either.

 

[stool]

lol
well that is backward...

moly allows a larger combustion chamber , quicker in the burn, and thus for a given load when going TO MOLY you lose velocity and will need to try adding powder ( if there is room) to get velocity back.

there is no "rule" because everything has diff case volume. go shoot the same load with a moly bullet over a chronograph, and if you have room for more powder bump it up till your velocity comes back.

My moly loads are 1/2 to 1 full grain less

 

[artbosco]

Midway USA
Moly Questions & Answers
Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly Ultra-Coat)

Molybdenum disulfide or "Moly", as it is commonly called, is a lubricant used in extreme pressure conditions due to its high degree of lubricity and high melting point. Moly has been found to reduce bore fouling when applied to bullet surfaces. It will decrease bore cleaning effort and time. Published reports have shown an increase in Ballistic Coefficient, longer barrel life, and an increase in accuracy.

Moly coated bullets will reduce pressure and velocity. Loads must be worked up slowly to attain previous velocities, therefore the maximum pressure of the cartridge must not be exceeded under any circumstances.

NOTE: This does NOT mean powder can be added indiscriminately.

NOTE: Loading data for Moly Coated Bullets and Non-Moly Coated Bullets is not interchangeable.

Below are questions concerning Moly coating that MidwayUSA customers have been asking with technical advice for each:

Do I need steel shot?

Steel shot is not needed in the MidwayUSA process.
Steel shot is used in other processes as a burnishing aid to imbed the Moly into the bullet surface.
By using the MidwayUSA 1292 Tumbler, bullet on bullet impact imbeds Moly into the bullet surface without the use of steel shot.

Do I need carnauba wax?

Carnauba wax is not needed.
Carnauba wax is used in other processes so the Moly would not rub off the bullets.
Some shooters using carnauba wax have found that the wax accumulates in the bore and crystallizes.

How many bullets can I coat?

A. An 8 oz container will coat approximately 970 lbs of jacketed bullets or 485 lbs of cast lead bullets.
B. The maximum load for a MidwayUSA 1292 Tumbler is 10 lbs.

Do cast lead bullets still need to be lubed?

Yes. Even though cast lead bullets have been Moly-coated they still must be lubed after Moly coating.
If Midway pre-sized and lubed cast bullets are being Moly-coated freeze the bullets for two hours then tumble with Moly for 20 minutes.

Why do I need different bowls for coating jacketed and cast lead bullets?

When coating cast lead bullets or bullets with exposed lead (i.e. soft points, spitzers) a layer of lead is deposited on the surface of the bowl. This layer of lead can then be transferred to a bullet’s copper jacket or plating causing the Moly not to adhere.
Bowls used for coating bullets with exposed lead (i.e. soft points, spitzers) should be cleaned after each use.
Bowls used for coating cast lead bullets should be cleaned after coating 50 lbs of bullets.
Bowls used for bullets without exposed lead (i.e. FMJ, HPBT) should be cleaned after coating 50 lbs of bullets.

How do I clean the bowl?

Fill the bowl just above the Moly stain line with corn cob or walnut media.
Pour 3-4 tablespoons of bore cleaner into the media.
Tumble the media/bore cleaner mixture for 30 minutes or until bowl is clean.
Wipe the bowl out with a clean cloth.
Degrease the bowl with liquid dish washing detergent and warm water.
Some Moly will remain embedded in the plastic bowl; which is perfectly fine. This cleaning process will remove any lead deposited in the bowl.

How pure is MidwayUSA Moly?

MidwayUSA Moly is 98.5% pure.
Impurities are mostly residual carbon created during production.
C. MidwayUSA Moly does not contain graphite. Graphite is hygroscopic and promotes rust.

What is the particle size of MidwayUSA Moly?

MidwayUSA Moly is considered to be technical grade. Particle size ranges from 1 to 100 microns.
The Fisher rating, or average particle size, is 3 to 4 microns.

How does Moly coating increase velocity?

Moly coating actually decreases pressure and muzzle velocity because of reduced friction between the bullet and bore.
Moly coating will increase terminal velocity by increasing the ballistic coefficient of the bullet. Moly has higher lubricity than the jacket material. This lubricity causes a reduced coefficient of friction in the air. The reduced drag results in a higher ballistic coefficient.

How do I obtain loading data for moly coated bullets?

Load data for Moly-coated bullets is NOT interchangeable with that of non-coated bullets.
MidwayUSA does not carry load data for Moly coated bullets.
Moly coated bullets will reduce pressure and velocity. Loads must be worked up slowly to attain previous velocities.
The maximum pressure of the cartridge must not be exceeded under any circumstances.

I’m shooting Moly-coated bullets and my groups are much larger than they were with non-coated bullets. What’s the problem?

It will take approximately 15-30 "fouling" shots with Moly-coated bullets to deposit a thin coat of Moly to the bore. The first coated bullet fired will deposit a small amount of Moly in the bore close to the throat. The next bullet will deposit more Moly where the first left off. Moly deposition will continue towards the muzzle until the entire length of the bore is coated. These fouling shots will provide a sporadic group because of the varying amount of friction in the bore. After the fouling procedure rounds should "settle in" and groups will tighten up.
Moly-coated bullets will reduce pressure and velocity. Loads need to be worked up slowly to attain original velocities. Dramatically reduced velocities generally deliver poor accuracy results.
It is suggested that loads be chronographed when working up a new load. It will be much easier attaining desirable results with velocity data from your firearm. This is true for all load testing, not just Moly loads.
Some non-Moly coated bullet/powder combinations may shoot better than a Moly-coated bullet/powder combination in a specific firearm.

How do I clean my firearm without removing the Moly?

Running a dry patch through the bore should remove any fouling; most of which will be carbon fouling.
If cleaning with a bore solvent is desired the bore will need to be recoated with Moly. This is accomplished by firing 15-30 fouling shots with Moly-coated bullets.

 

[stool]

might i suggest you go read the norma report.....
midway is trying to sell a user applied product and want the process to be simple to aid sales...
and it is wrong but they do not care..as long as you buy their product...
25% of the total benefit of moly is the WAX....




(changed report to norma, not lapua..one day i will get it straight)

 

[1KBR]

I have only just switched my 6BR from naked to moly bullets. The 105gn bullets were coated with the wet moly method, no wax used. I had to up my load .2gn of Varget to keep the same speed or 2820fps. When I went up .3gn, it was 10 fps faster than naked. This was after firing 15 shots with a pre moly swabbed barrel. The minor primer cratering I previously had was very slightly reduced, so likely slightly less pressure.

 

[Immike]

I use the wet moly method and find that it takes about .2 grains more than bare bullets to achieve the same speed.

 

[Shynloco]

lol
well that is backward...

moly allows a larger combustion chamber , quicker in the burn, and thus for a given load when going TO MOLY you lose velocity and will need to try adding powder ( if there is room) to get velocity back.

there is no "rule" because everything has diff case volume. go shoot the same load with a moly bullet over a chronograph, and if you have room for more powder bump it up till your velocity comes back.

My moly loads are 1/2 to 1 full grain less

stool,
Not challenging what you wrote and I'm not a moly fan, but I've always heard from a few moly lovers that you get more velocity by using molly coated bullets. Just asking for a point of clarification and information. Apparently, you and Inmike differ in what I'd been told. Thx!

Alex

 

[1KBR]

lol
well that is backward...

moly allows a larger combustion chamber , quicker in the burn, and thus for a given load when going TO MOLY you lose velocity and will need to try adding powder ( if there is room) to get velocity back.

there is no "rule" because everything has diff case volume. go shoot the same load with a moly bullet over a chronograph, and if you have room for more powder bump it up till your velocity comes back.

My moly loads are 1/2 to 1 full grain less

stool,
Not challenging what you wrote and I'm not a moly fan, but I've always heard from a few moly lovers that you get more velocity by using molly coated bullets. Just asking for a point of clarification and information. Apparently, you and Inmike differ in what I'd been told. Thx!

Alex

Shynloco. If you run the same load with moly and bare bullets, the bare bullets will give you more velocity.
The moly reduces pressure more than it reduces velocity, so when you bump up the powder load, you can get the same speed with less pressure or bump it up to the same pressure and more speed.

 

[Immike]

This is correct. There is less resistance to start the bullet in the rifling with moly and the pressure is lower than the bare bullets. This results in a loss of velocity.

 

[thekriebles]

This is correct. There is less resistance to start the bullet in the rifling with moly and the pressure is lower than the bare bullets. This results in a loss of velocity.

+1^^^^

 

[stool]

word games with the same out come.

moly does NOT reduce pressure.
moly reduces friction.
reduced friction allows a moly bullet to move further/faster than a naked bullet.
this happens very fast..and basically increases the volume of the combustion chamber.....
(case volume, plus where the bullet meets its first real resistance)
this larger combustion chamber produces less pressure for the original load, and thus less velocity.

same out come, different words.

The moly reduces pressure more than it reduces velocity, .

 

[Shynloco]

Gentlemen,
I thank you for the detailed explanation and sharing your thinking. I was always under the impression that Moly, did in fact, make entry into the rifling easier because of the lubrication factor, thus creating less friction. But I messed it up in concluding that would ALSO lead to faster travel down the barrel as well, leading to higher velocity. I think others (who told me the previously mentioned tale) have also botched their conclusion. But you fellas helped me to get a true grip on what's REALLY happening when using Moly. I thank you for getting me straight!

Alex

 

[1KBR]

word games with the same out come.

moly does NOT reduce pressure.
moly reduces friction.
reduced friction allows a moly bullet to move further/faster than a naked bullet.
this happens very fast..and basically increases the volume of the combustion chamber.....
(case volume, plus where the bullet meets its first real resistance)
this larger combustion chamber produces less pressure for the original load, and thus less velocity.

same out come, different words.

The moly reduces pressure more than it reduces velocity, .

So moly doesn't reduce pressure. You better get let the makers of Quickload know that because when I tick the "coated" box, the pressure readings are all lower. Maybe my barrels are wrong as well.

 

[stool]

did you read the entire post ??
including the last line ??
no moly does not reduce pressure... it reduces friction and on and on..

go read the words i wrote

quickload is correct....

word games with the same out come.

moly does NOT reduce pressure.
moly reduces friction.
reduced friction allows a moly bullet to move further/faster than a naked bullet.
this happens very fast..and basically increases the volume of the combustion chamber.....
(case volume, plus where the bullet meets its first real resistance)
this larger combustion chamber produces less pressure for the original load, and thus less velocity.

same out come, different words.

The moly reduces pressure more than it reduces velocity, .

So moly doesn't reduce pressure. You better get let the makers of Quickload know that because when I tick the "coated" box, the pressure readings are all lower. Maybe my barrels are wrong as well.

 

[stool]

before we get into a discussion,
just tell me,what part of my description do you not understand ?
i'd be happy to try again.

 

[seymour fish]

Just to further refine, Moly reduces friction, thus reduces the pressure required to Obturate, thus more quickly produces a larger area for gas to expand into, thus likely slows burn rate a tad, thus a slower rate of rise over time of pressure, and a bit lower peak pressure, for a given load. The answer to the OP's original question is 'roughly 4-6%'. Seymour

 

[stool]

and to show you just how silly it is to ask the question and use answers posted here, in a typical 223 55 gr load of 25 gr of x powder, a 4% reduction is ONE WHOLE GRAIN.....
i have never seen more than .3-.4 in a a223 load.


moving on

 

[hogpatrol]

The "Thread Killer" strikes again!

 

[seymour fish]

Hog, No Chit. The 'never mind the published data per Norma and VV attitude " is getting long in the tooth, less than helpful, some might find a suggestion of some sort of "stress" at work. ROFLMAO. Seymour