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MOA versus MIL?

Last time this discussion was had here was 2017 as best I can see.The optics market has seen some changes since then.
If you were purchasing today, would you be looking for an MOA or a MIL 'scope?
Secondarily, were you to be buying an LPVO today, would your answer be the same?
Trying to understand the market and appreciate your participation.
 
One thing to consider is the amount of adjustment per click. MRad scopes are usually .1 / click and most MOA scopes are .25 MOA.

.1 MRad is about equal to .34 MOA.
Or some, like my Delta Stryker HDs (I have two) are 1/8 MOA clicks (in MRAD0.05) So the value per click is somewhat finer with the MOA version, whether my shooting is up to showing the difference we might discuss :-) I just like MOA because my simple old mind can visualize it better -- 1" at 100 yards, 10" at 1,000 (mas o menos). Yeah, I can handle that.
 
My shooting group all use mils, it's easier if we all speak the same language.

I can shoot with either system and have no personal preference.
Interesting though, that just about every target I've looked at in the US -- steel or paper -- is not metric. So, a 10" steel is 1MOA at 1,000 yards. My tired old brain can handle that. Get it on the group stuff though... (all my pals are old and don't think Metric. )
 
If the IPHY or Inch Per Hundred Yards approximation for MOA works for you, then I think you should stick with MOA. Especially if you're shooting paper with defined MOA rings.

Rather than thinking of MRad as metric, I just think of it as decimal shifting. .1 MRad @ 1000 Yards / 36,000 Inches = 3.6"
 
My old USA brain still uses MOA.
I can & do use the metric system for some things, especially when i drive to Canada.

Even though i could use MRAD, i prefer MOA when shooting at further distances. Mainly because the adjustments for MOA are finer than MRAD. 2.5" at 1,000 yards vs 3.6" (very roughly).
 
My old USA brain still uses MOA.
I can & do use the metric system for some things, especially when i drive to Canada.

Even though i could use MRAD, i prefer MOA when shooting at further distances. Mainly because the adjustments for MOA are finer than MRAD. 2.5" at 1,000 yards vs 3.6" (very roughly).

Sorry but milradians is not metric, not that it matters. And there are a few scopes which are adjustable at .05mil graduations, but the fineness of the adjustment has nothing to do with the units of measure. For paper targets I'm interested in the 1/10moa models.
 
It's a culture thing. F-class as it's based on TR will always be MOA. That's how the targets are marked/sized. PRS will be mils. Hunters will use whatever.
Interesting though - here in NZ used Mil scopes sell for less money than MOA scopes. I have seen plenty on-line that just don't sell at all. Bushnell high end scopes, on run out, are not moving quickly at much reduced prices - like $1000 NZ below the old retail.
 
I hear ya, culture is a funny thing. I graduated HS in 1967 and remember talk that US would be switching to metric system and begin teaching it "soon, lol it hasn't happened. Learned metric system in college, much simpler than English imperial, and used it at work and personally ever since.
 
My old USA brain still uses MOA.
I can & do use the metric system for some things, especially when i drive to Canada.

Even though i could use MRAD, i prefer MOA when shooting at further distances. Mainly because the adjustments for MOA are finer than MRAD. 2.5" at 1,000 yards vs 3.6" (very roughly).

Actually 2.6" for 1/4 moa. ;) And as mentioned mils are not metric and moa is not imperial. Neither is tied to any linear. I have never used the metric system and have used mils for decades. Have also used MOA. No problems with either. Set your ballistic program to what the scope is in and dial or hold the shot. If you miss use the reticle as a ruler to tell you your correction and dial or hold it. Simple. No linear at all. All angular. Have used mil scopes to hit targets out to 2500 yards so there is no problem doing that. It comes down to the game at hand. Most of the BR and F Class use 1/8 MOA for the reasons above but most in PRS style use mils.

OP I would buy a mil scope if buying for long range but for a LPVO I would use an MOA as most of the BDC style reticles are MOA. I use the Razor II 1-6 and the Razor III 1-10 both with MOA BDC reticles.
 
I suppose I don't really have a preference. MOA feels a bit simpler. But I've used both.

Have one scope right now. It's in MILs, for longer-range paper punching, 0.1 mrad/click.
 
To me it depends on what kind of shooting you will be doing. I have both MOA and MIL and don't have a preference per se. For static shooting at paper, I like MOA because of the finer adjustment (1/8 or 1/4 vs 0.1 MILs) helps with precision. For long range steel and PRS match shooting where targets are hit-or-miss and I am holding off for winds and changing targets/distances/angles quickly, I prefer MILs. I find dealing in a base 10 system is easier to compute quickly and accurately. I have degrees in math and engineering and I still make mistakes trying to compute all the math fast in MOA.
 
All my scopes are MOA based. Almost all the guys I shoot with are MIL based. It makes it more difficult to share wind calls.
I am definitely the odd man out in my circle. I shot a PMS style match this weekend (not my strong suite) and did horrible. Did my MOA Schmidt hold me back?, I don't think so. I really think it depends on the game your playing. I'm contemplating getting into F class as my field match shooting days are coming to an end. Different scope for that game for sure. SFP, 1/8, higher mag.
 
Or some, like my Delta Stryker HDs (I have two) are 1/8 MOA clicks (in MRAD0.05) So the value per click is somewhat finer with the MOA version, whether my shooting is up to showing the difference we might discuss :) I just like MOA because my simple old mind can visualize it better -- 1" at 100 yards, 10" at 1,000 (mas o menos). Yeah, I can handle that.
Not trying to pick at you, but what could be easier than .1mil at any distance, or .5mil at any distance? There's no need to think in linear measurements when your shooting in angular adjustments. Just think it same language as your scope is.
 
Last time this discussion was had here was 2017 as best I can see.The optics market has seen some changes since then.
If you were purchasing today, would you be looking for an MOA or a MIL 'scope?
Secondarily, were you to be buying an LPVO today, would your answer be the same?
Trying to understand the market and appreciate your participation.
Question 1: Buy MIL or MOA now?
Well, that really depends on the game and also somewhat of FFP vs SFP.

A lot of SFP scopes are MOA scope sand these are better suited for precision games like F-class and Benchrest in KD ranges. The apparent size of the reticle gets smaller with magnification and you don't need the ranging capabilities of an FFP scope There are MIL reticles in SFP scopes, but the MOA is more prevalent and better suited for NRA competitions.

The FFP scopes "usually" come with MIL reticles/knobs, and it's easier to range distance with an FFP scope. The apparent reticle size will remain the same on target as magnification grows, but in the eyepiece, it will grow and that can be disconcerting for SFP users.

I have shot a lot of F-Class and everything in that game is MOA. When people come to play and bring a MIL scope, it confuses this old man, but I can power through it if I have to. I strongly recommend an SFP/MOA combo for that.

I have shot a tiny bit of PRS and I can see where an SFP/MOA scope is not indicated. In the most recent PRS match I shot, the target distances were provided ahead of time, but they were from 300 yards to 1000 yards, and at various distances. I worked up a list of the target distances and the MIL offset from a 100 yard zero. Everything but the 1000 yard target was available within one rotation.

Let's say I had 3 distances to deal with on a stage: 317 yards, 548 yards and 784 yards. I had worked out the come ups prior to the match for the listed distances, all values were from 100 yard zero. For example, the values for those 3 distances would be something like 4.7 @ 317, 6.1 @ 548, and 8.4 @ 784. My scope has 10MIL/rotation, with 0.0 set for 100 yards. For each stage, I would have the dial set at the first distance for that stage, then I would dial to the distance of the next shot and so on. The number would be exact on the dial and provided you had properly calculated the come-ups, you could blindly dial for the next distance, hold on and compensate for the wind and take the shot. If you saw the splash near the target, your Christmas tree reticle would help you figure out your correction.

That would be a little more complicated with MOA as these division as 1/4 or 1/8 and there's 3.5 times more MAOs than MILs for the same distance. You would have something like 14 & 3/4 @ 317, 21 & 1/4 @ 548 and 29 & 2/4 @784. That's more complicated dialing, especially if your knob is 10MOA/rotation.

So, depends on the game.

Question 2: LPVOs. That has changed a great deal in the last few years. The top of the line right now is the March-F 1-10X24 with dual reticle in MIL. I think MOA is too fine for LPVOs.
 
Moa is not too fine for LPVO. The Razor II 1-6 has been very good with the moa based JM-1 reticle and the new 1-10 moa reticle works great as well.

sub_RazorHD3_EBR-9_moa_1-10x24.jpg
 

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