Misfire on new rifle

[KMart]

I have a new 6GT; of the 60 rounds I have fired so far, I have had eight misfires. The primer is struck, and no bang. Trying second-time results the same, no bang.

I am using new Alpha brass (with no resizing or cleaning), Varget, and CCI 450 primers. Headspace, primer seating depth, powder charge, CBTS, CBTO, and COAL are the same for all rounds.

These were loaded in a room with less than 50% humidity and fired within 24 hours of loading.

Pulling the bullet on each one that misfires, what I see is below.

Clumped powder and what appears to be a primer that did ignite or tried to. I added an unfired primer for comparison.

I think the Imperial wax I am lubing the bullet with may be causing this. I don't understand why since I have loaded thousands of rounds for other rifles using the same process and never had this issue.

I had a ninth round that did fire, but it still had some leftover clumped powder.

I validated headspace by removing the firing pin and ejector and comparing a piece of fired brass to the new brass. The fired brass CBTS is 1.923 and fits like a glove, and the new brass or a piece of resized brass is 1.920. With a piece of tape on the new brass head, I can feel a little drag on the bolt as I close it.

With the firing pin and ejector out, I also jammed a lubed bullet in a resized, annealed case with tape on the head to add another .002" and found JAM. CBTO at JAM is 1.926, and COAL is 2.652. I dropped that by .020 and ended up with a COAL of 2.631 which is .009" less than the SAAMI max with a 110-grain A-Tip which is a long bullet.

The total length of the brass from the head to the neck is 1.720".

Primer pocket is between .1205 and .1220 and the primer measures about the same. I am seating them .002"-.003" deep.

I had a reputable gunsmith do the hard stuff. I'm just loading the ammo.

Thoughts on the misfire?

This is the second thread this week about problems with misfires and both are using CCI 450 primers.

Cci 450 issues

Has anyone had any issues with cci 450 primers? These were bought with in last 2 years. Just getting around to loading with them. I had a 6x45 built. Im using LC brass. First time out flawless operation. About a month had passed, i loaded up 2 more powders to try and started having failed...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[AlNyhus]

What action are you working with? If the gun was here in front of me, I'd check these things to make sure it's not a mechanical issue:

-Firing pin fit in the bolt
-Firing pin protrussion
-Firing pin travel
-Firing pin spring pressure
-Cocking piece/trigger interaction.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[JSH]

Is the primer seated firmly into the bottom of the pocket?
Just went through this with a fellow the past month. He spent a load of money on precision stuff, a bunch of reading. His primers were set where he wanted to set them with his “gadget”.
I seated the rest of them solid into the pocket, all worked fine after that.

Do as you please but I don’t want any contaminates inside my cases. I cast my own bullets and bases get wiped off of everyone, and no bullet below the neck.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

You said new unsized (no cleaning) brass, did you prep the flash hole? Not sure if Alpha punches the flash or drills it. Possibly some sort of manufacturing lube in the flash hole, clumping the powder there during charging?

 

[big5ifty]

Change primers, and re-test.

If you found powder discoloration on a pulled round, it means the primer ignited but in a squib sort of way, not hot enough to ignite the powder charge.

I once had a bunch of ammo loaded using PMP large rifle primers. After the third misfire, I stopped the range session, went home, pulled all the rounds, decapped and disposed of the primers - with the ones left over in the primer box.

Maybe CCi is starting to outsource production of those primers, or worse - getting the PMP factory to make them.

 

[K22]

Rule out rifle first - shoot a box of factory ammo. If misfires, then it's the rifle. If no misfires, it's the reloads.

Rifle problem - take to competent rifle smith and have it thoroughly inspected and checked. There is no sense in my way of thinking to try and play gunsmith, for a nominal fee have the rifle checked by an expert.

Reload / Component problems: all the variables have listed in the aforementioned posts. By process of elimination start checking each variable. Here is the sequence I would use once the rifle is confirmed not to be the problem:

Check for faulty primers - this would be the first variable I'd check. Change primer brand then see what happens.

Second, review your reloading process especially case prep to make sure you are not contaminating the primers or powder. I've used Imperial Sizing Wax forever and never had an issue with it. I seriously doubt this is your problem.

Third, try a different lot or brand of powder.

PS: While I don't believe it's causing your problem, there is absolutely no reason to lube bullets.

 

[old codger]

Residual moisture in case from wet cleaning method.

 

[jelenko]

I have a new 6GT; of the 60 rounds I have fired so far, I have had eight misfires. The primer is struck, and no bang. Trying second-time results the same, no bang.

I am using new Alpha brass (with no resizing or cleaning), Varget, and CCI 450 primers. Headspace, primer seating depth, powder charge, CBTS, CBTO, and COAL are the same for all rounds.

These were loaded in a room with less than 50% humidity and fired within 24 hours of loading.

Pulling the bullet on each one that misfires, what I see is below.

Clumped powder and what appears to be a primer that did ignite or tried to. I added an unfired primer for comparison.

I think the Imperial wax I am lubing the bullet with may be causing this. I don't understand why since I have loaded thousands of rounds for other rifles using the same process and never had this issue.

I had a ninth round that did fire, but it still had some leftover clumped powder.

I validated headspace by removing the firing pin and ejector and comparing a piece of fired brass to the new brass. The fired brass CBTS is 1.923 and fits like a glove, and the new brass or a piece of resized brass is 1.920. With a piece of tape on the new brass head, I can feel a little drag on the bolt as I close it.

With the firing pin and ejector out, I also jammed a lubed bullet in a resized, annealed case with tape on the head to add another .002" and found JAM. CBTO at JAM is 1.926, and COAL is 2.652. I dropped that by .020 and ended up with a COAL of 2.631 which is .009" less than the SAAMI max with a 110-grain A-Tip which is a long bullet.

The total length of the brass from the head to the neck is 1.720".

Primer pocket is between .1205 and .1220 and the primer measures about the same. I am seating them .002"-.003" deep.

I had a reputable gunsmith do the hard stuff. I'm just loading the ammo.

Thoughts on the misfire?

Would you say what the lot number is for the CCI 450 primers?
I have a bunch [over 20,000] that were bought in the last couple years. I will see if any are the same lot number and make up a bunch of test rounds.
I'd be using an AR15 to do the testing. It hasn't had a misfire in more than 50,000 rounds => good confidence that it's working.

 

[jelenko]

This is the second thread this week about problems with misfires and both are using CCI 450 primers.

Cci 450 issues

Has anyone had any issues with cci 450 primers? These were bought with in last 2 years. Just getting around to loading with them. I had a 6x45 built. Im using LC brass. First time out flawless operation. About a month had passed, i loaded up 2 more powders to try and started having failed...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Yeah. Got me worried. I'm hoping the OP has the lot number so I can test if some of the same lot are in my inventory.

 

[Doom]

Headspace is seldom an issue if you get good impact from the firing pin because the ejector is holding the case shoulder against the chamber. The primer fired and may be the cause of the powder discoloration from partial burning but if the powder is that way on loading it is a problem. Imperial Wax is not a bullet lube and should not be used as such. You have no way of knowing what is in the wax as Redding claims nothing hazardous and other ingredients are proprietary.

If you wet tumble then it is a likely suspect.

Bottom line. The primer fired and it's unlikely that the primer itself is at fault.

 

[JMayo]

Stop with the measuring primer seating and put them on the bottom......

 

[SBS]

Is the primer seated firmly into the bottom of the pocket?
Just went through this with a fellow the past month. He spent a load of money on precision stuff, a bunch of reading. His primers were set where he wanted to set them with his “gadget”.
I seated the rest of them solid into the pocket, all worked fine after that.

Do as you please but I don’t want any contaminates inside my cases. I cast my own bullets and bases get wiped off of everyone, and no bullet below the neck.

JSH made a very valid point on primer seating. You cannot seat the primers to a predetermined depth and assume they are bottomed out -- unless you have properly uniformed the pockets and then determined the proper depth by feel. If the primer is not bottomed out (and preferably with a little pressure on it), part of the firing pin force is used up by seating the primer and there is not enough force left for ignition. I also went through this with several shooters over the years, who thought they could just seat a primer flush or just below surface and all would be good.

 

[6.5 forever]

You certainly don't need to wet-lube a jacketed bullet. Dry-lube if running a mandrel, maybe. Wet-lubing is asking for trouble.

That said, I think your lubing of your bullets is a red herring. That's not what's causing your problem.

With a new rifle my first thought would be a marginal chamber/bolt dimension; or a weak firing pin spring.

But partial primer ignition is extremely rare. I'm inclined to agree with Ralph... a bad lot of primers.

I agree on this. Especially wet lube bullets. Even if the problem is the primer, I would stop lining the bullet. Dry lube only if you must lube them.

 

[Webster]

I have a new 6GT; of the 60 rounds I have fired so far, I have had eight misfires. The primer is struck, and no bang. Trying second-time results the same, no bang.

I am using new Alpha brass (with no resizing or cleaning), Varget, and CCI 450 primers. Headspace, primer seating depth, powder charge, CBTS, CBTO, and COAL are the same for all rounds.

These were loaded in a room with less than 50% humidity and fired within 24 hours of loading.

Pulling the bullet on each one that misfires, what I see is below.

Clumped powder and what appears to be a primer that did ignite or tried to. I added an unfired primer for comparison.

I think the Imperial wax I am lubing the bullet with may be causing this. I don't understand why since I have loaded thousands of rounds for other rifles using the same process and never had this issue.

I had a ninth round that did fire, but it still had some leftover clumped powder.

I validated headspace by removing the firing pin and ejector and comparing a piece of fired brass to the new brass. The fired brass CBTS is 1.923 and fits like a glove, and the new brass or a piece of resized brass is 1.920. With a piece of tape on the new brass head, I can feel a little drag on the bolt as I close it.

With the firing pin and ejector out, I also jammed a lubed bullet in a resized, annealed case with tape on the head to add another .002" and found JAM. CBTO at JAM is 1.926, and COAL is 2.652. I dropped that by .020 and ended up with a COAL of 2.631 which is .009" less than the SAAMI max with a 110-grain A-Tip which is a long bullet.

The total length of the brass from the head to the neck is 1.720".

Primer pocket is between .1205 and .1220 and the primer measures about the same. I am seating them .002"-.003" deep.

I had a reputable gunsmith do the hard stuff. I'm just loading the ammo.

Thoughts on the misfire?

Your seating the primers to 0.0025”. This means you are not seating by feel to the bottom of the pocket. The only primers I ever had fail were not seated to the bottom of the pocket. You also have a major problem with powder clumping. My guess is it can only be caused by moisture being present or powder deterioration which is not likely. You need to find out why the powder is clumping. I never had bad powder in 50 years.

 

[dgeesaman]

Your seating the primers to 0.0025”. This means you are not seating by feel to the bottom of the pocket. The only primers I ever had fail were not seated to the bottom of the pocket. You also have a major problem with powder clumping. My guess is it can only be caused by moisture being present or powder deterioration which is not likely. You need to find out why the powder is clumping. I never had bad powder in 50 years.

Clumping powder and misfires are what I saw when I wasn’t getting good ignition using SRP Creedmoor in cold temps.

Using a hotter primer and/or powder with fuller case fill and/or large rifle primers solved it for me.

 

[Peterson1]

I have a new 6GT; of the 60 rounds I have fired so far, I have had eight misfires. The primer is struck, and no bang. Trying second-time results the same, no bang.

I am using new Alpha brass (with no resizing or cleaning), Varget, and CCI 450 primers. Headspace, primer seating depth, powder charge, CBTS, CBTO, and COAL are the same for all rounds.

These were loaded in a room with less than 50% humidity and fired within 24 hours of loading.

Pulling the bullet on each one that misfires, what I see is below.

Clumped powder and what appears to be a primer that did ignite or tried to. I added an unfired primer for comparison.

I think the Imperial wax I am lubing the bullet with may be causing this. I don't understand why since I have loaded thousands of rounds for other rifles using the same process and never had this issue.

I had a ninth round that did fire, but it still had some leftover clumped powder.

I validated headspace by removing the firing pin and ejector and comparing a piece of fired brass to the new brass. The fired brass CBTS is 1.923 and fits like a glove, and the new brass or a piece of resized brass is 1.920. With a piece of tape on the new brass head, I can feel a little drag on the bolt as I close it.

With the firing pin and ejector out, I also jammed a lubed bullet in a resized, annealed case with tape on the head to add another .002" and found JAM. CBTO at JAM is 1.926, and COAL is 2.652. I dropped that by .020 and ended up with a COAL of 2.631 which is .009" less than the SAAMI max with a 110-grain A-Tip which is a long bullet.

The total length of the brass from the head to the neck is 1.720".

Primer pocket is between .1205 and .1220 and the primer measures about the same. I am seating them .002"-.003" deep.

I had a reputable gunsmith do the hard stuff. I'm just loading the ammo.

Thoughts on the misfire?

My thoughts

What your doing with the 1st firing of a new case is your "Fire Forming" the case to your chamber.
I always seat the bullet longer than the "Jam Number" and jam the bullet into the rifling there by holding the case against the bolt. When firing the case, the primer is held in place, and not allowing it to move, because its jammed in place against the bolt/firing pin.

The case manufacturing companies usually leave the case body length a little short to accommodate the variability of the different gun manufactures yet meeting SAMI specs.

The only time I have had a primer failure is when I did something wrong--not the primers fault--contaminating the primer causes miss fires!!!!!!!


Try seating the bullet 10thou into the rifling from a hard jam and you will be fire forming the cases to your chamber..
When re sizing cases dont re creat your present problem, only push the shoulder back 0.001 thou.

I shoot short range benchrest (About 4-5000 rounds per year)
I cant remember when I have had a primer failure==Its always primer contamination by me!!!!
I dont lube bullets other than sometimes have coated bullets with Molly or HBN--dont anymore!!!!

Your powder clumping is also evidence (In my opion) that your contaminating the powder?????

Just my thoughts
Its wort what you have paid for it!!!!

CLP

 

[Rocketvapor]

Try a batch with primers seated by feel, to the bottom.
Measure and report depth below flush.
Primer fizzle will discolor powder.

 

[Webster]

Clumping powder and misfires are what I saw when I wasn’t getting good ignition using SRP Creedmoor in cold temps.

Using a hotter primer and/or powder with fuller case fill and/or large rifle primers solved it for me.

Interesting. Are you saying a primer with poor ignition and fail to fire will might contaminate the powder? Why are there only a couple of small clumps, the rest is I still normal looking. Non of the powder burned? Are the lumps at the front or back of the case? Your seating to 0.0025" depth, this is a problem. I think that as a first simple step he needs to seat the primer to the bottom of the pocket and make sure the powder looks normal and then see if the problem goes away. If this doesn't solve the problem it becomes much more difficult. My guess is that there is nothing wrong with the rifle. Just loading bad ammo. Did he find clumped powder when pulling bullets on cartridges that were loaded but never in the rifle? I fired several brands of non magnum primers in the winter for deer hunting. They all went off. The only primers I didn't have go off in 50 years were ones I seated just below the case head surface. They failed in the Summer.

 

[Savagenut71]

I've had 450 primer issues as well. 6x47 , two different ones and plenty of hit , but no bang. It's in 2 different lot numbers.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Lubing the bullet with imperial? I think we have identified at least one major issue. Second is not seating primers deep enough