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Measuring Seating Depth?

I've been measuring seating depth by adding the TTL of my cases to the bullet measurement and then subtracting the COAL. Is this how it is commonly done?
Because I measure the CBTO when seating bullets, the COAL varies and, I assume, so would the seating depth. This is what confuses me. I've always read that a consistent CBTO measurement should be used for best accuracy and consistency. :confused:
 
Unless you are calculating available volume of a case with the bullet seated, +/- .002 on a small capacity case, being off won’t change much.

If you want to tighten up that variable. use bullet base to ogive measurement instead of total bullet length in your equation.

Case length + bullet base to ogive length - cartridge base to ogive = seated depth.
 
If you measure to the ogive everytime the seating depth will all be the same +/- .0005 based on your brass, the bullet type, your tools, your habbits...

However, the overall will be different based on the bullet tip type.

I always measure to ogive and don't care what the overall is.
 
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If you measure to the ogive everytime the seating depth will all be the same +/- .005 based on your brass, the bullet type, your tools, your habbits...

However, the overall will be different based on the bullet tip type.

I always measure to ogive and don't care what the overall is.
I don't see .005" +/-difference to be a very good seating depth for my loadings.

With bullet sorting and seating long to start with, I'm within .0005" +/- consistently. It's an extra step, but pays off.
 
I don't see .005" +/-difference to be a very good seating depth for my loadings.

With bullet sorting and seating long to start with, I'm within .0005" +/- consistently. It's an extra step, but pays off.
LMAO. See a zero does make a difference.
Thanks for the correction. My I intention was half a rhou. I fixed my post.
 
I always measure to ogive and don't care what the overall is.
Right, and I don't care what the "seating depth" per se is, as long as an appropriate amount of the bullet is in the neck.

But I have to measure every different bullet type and weight to find what its OTL (on the lands) measurement is, and then start shooting groups to see where to go from there. But the only thing I am measuring is base of case to ogive of seated bullet.
 
Papajoe222 - some of the reasons for using CBTO measurements are that 1) the point on the bullet ogive just above the bearing surface is the point at which the bullet first contacts the rifling, 2) the distance between this point and the base of the case can be measured using calipers/insert with very good accuracy and precision, 3) It is this relationship between the lands and the first contact point on the bullet that we are trying accurately measure, not the overall length of a loaded round (COAL). If a Lot# of bullets has non-uniform nose length (which they pretty much all do), and you use COAL measurements in lieu of CBTO as the determinant for seating depth, it is likely that your total seating depth variance will be very close to bullet nose length variance within that Lot# of bullets, which may be quite large and will generally be unacceptable. In other words, if you have two measurement points (i.e. CBTO and COAL), and the bullet nose region in between those two points has significant length variance, using the longer of those two measurement points (i.e. COAL) will add that length variance into the the shorter of the two measurement points (i.e. CBTO). You really don't want to do that, and there is really no need to do it.

As noted, any additional dimensions or steps added to direct measurement of CBTO is likely to introduce additional error into those measurements, something that is not desirable. There is certainly bullet nose length variance in any Lot# of bullets. However, minor variance in bullet nose length past the critical point where the bullet first contacts the lands will not usually have a huge impact on precision. If minor length variance in COAL still causes "mental" concern or unease, you can always sort bullets into length groups first using bullet OAL. This should greatly minimize the COAL variance of loaded rounds having uniform seating depth as determined using CBTO measurement.

In addition, how you set up your press and seating die can either work in your favor, or against you. Make it work for you. For example, let's say you have decided on using a specific optimal seating depth of 2.250" (i.e. using CBTO measurement) based on your seating depth test targets. You have further decided that anywhere from 2.250" to 2.249" will be an acceptable seating range (i.e. 0.001" total range). Then set the die micrometer such that most of the seated bullets will be at exactly 2.250" after a single stroke of the press. A few may be just a tick longer at 2.251" or 2.252", but none should be shorter than your desired lower limit of 2.249". If necessary, the rounds that measure 2.251" or 2.252" can always be given another light tap in the press to bring them to your final acceptable range of 2.250" to 2.249". The main thing is that you don't want any to be shorter than your lower acceptable limit. By setting up the die micrometer to give you only the desired length, or just a tick longer on the first stroke, you can largely prevent that from happening. Some proportion of your seated rounds will require an additional tap to get them into the acceptable seating depth window, but that is really a minor price to pay for consistent seating depth.

The reason I make that last statement is that it is not at all uncommon to do conduct a seating depth test in .003" increments (some use even smaller increments). It is also not uncommon to see several consecutive seating depth test increments that do NOT produce acceptable groups, then all of a sudden the groups tighten up to a single ragged hole for at least two or more increments. What that really means is that if the bullets are seated anywhere close to the edge of the optimal seating depth window, even a couple or three thousands error would be enough to throw the load out of tune and cause unacceptable precision. When it comes to good precision, seating depth is a BIG DEAL, meaning it's very critical to get it right. Use CBTO measurements, length sort bullets if you feel it's necessary, and make certain that the seating depth of your loaded rounds is consistent.
 
If you document the CBTO, you should also document the COAL. I just had an issue where I had to change my ogive comparator insert. The new one measures differently, I think it's .007" off (in measured round results) compared to the old one. Without both the COAL and the CBTO documented, it would have been harder to get back and running without doing another seating depth test.

I may start keeping a dummy round around, with the bullet seated to my desired depth.
 
I've been measuring seating depth by adding the TTL of my cases to the bullet measurement and then subtracting the COAL. Is this how it is commonly done?
Because I measure the CBTO when seating bullets, the COAL varies and, I assume, so would the seating depth. This is what confuses me. I've always read that a consistent CBTO measurement should be used for best accuracy and consistency. :confused:
I find it best and most hand loaders agree to ignore COAL when working with seating depths. About the only time COAL actually means anything is when determining what length will work in the mags. Working with CBTO ONLY simplifies the whole process.
 
I've been measuring seating depth by adding the TTL of my cases to the bullet measurement and then subtracting the COAL. Is this how it is commonly done?
Because I measure the CBTO when seating bullets, the COAL varies and, I assume, so would the seating depth. This is what confuses me. I've always read that a consistent CBTO measurement should be used for best accuracy and consistency. :confused:

Yes, the seating depth can vary justly like COAL and a lot of that depends on the quality of the bullets being manufactured. But, the variance in the bullet's BTO is typically less than the variance in the bullet's OAL. So, focusing the the CBTO rather than the COAL will tend to produce more consistent seating depth.

To get the most consistent seating depth, one can sort the bullets by their BTO. And that's what I typically do when I get a batch that has BTO variance over .002. But what I actually do now when, if I sort them, I use a comparator that has a diameter that's the same as the seating stem of my seating die. Though that diameter is above the ojive, the difference on the bullet between the two is very small. And doing this gives tends to give me a very consistent seating depth for each cartridge of +/- .0005 when measuring the CBTO with the comparator having the diameter of the ogive (yes, this is not the same comparator I use for sorting).

Some batches of bullets I buy require sorting (for me anyway) and some don't. Like today, I just recieved a box of 500 and upon measuring a good sample to see if i needed to sort them, I found out of 20 sampled and taken from different places in the box (like from the bottom and the sides), every measurement was within .0005, so no sorting is needed for this box (thank goodness. . . I really don't like sorting).

Like some other have pointed out, the bullet's OAL is not of any importance to me unless there's a rare situation where I have to be concerned about cartridges fitting into my mag. But, maybe that'll change if I decide to get a pointing die to point all my bullets. :p ;)
 

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