Measuring groups

[sonofagun231]

Bob,
If you could make them for .20 cents each and we had a small weekend 2 gun BR match. If we only 25 shooters, that is 500 targets or 20 targets per shooter. Using your figures that is $100 for targets alone. I think you are optimistic about that low cost. It seems that you have thrown out the idea without a clue as to how to make them or what material. Kinda like saying somebody could build a windflag that would shock your gonads when you needed to pull the trigger. Everybody would shoot great groups that way. Somebody out there should be able to do it!

And just suppose somebody shoots what looks like a new world record but it turns into an endless argument about the exact group size kinda like the old one about that .009 (was it?) group. I thought you guys were/are all perfectionists? Why not a way to measure targets PERFECTLY??

Every other advance in the BR game has cost $$ hasn't it?

 

[JDMock]

Ferris Pindell told me that he tried some fast drying lacquer on the targets and it caused the bullets to cut clean holes that were easy to measure. He said that a swipe across the center of a target with a broad brush would dry quickly and greatly increase the precision of the measurements. Ferris and his experimentation are greatly missed by many of us. Good shooting.....James Mock

 

[sonofagun231]

I wondered when Bob Schaeffer ( SONOFAGUN) would stick his head up over the berm again.
For the newcomer, Sonofagun advocates the use of Formica for target material as he claims it renders a more accurate hole than paper. What he doesn't tell you is that he has never fired a match, nor scored, referreed, or officiated in any way at any matches. He would walk behind the line at Harrison with his deer rifle over his shoulder and just look with that far away look in his eyes. I never trusted the guy and never turned my back to him.

I have highlighted in bold the parts that are absolutely not true - borders on libel. Correction is requested.

So what if I haven't "fired a match, nor scored, referreed, or officiated in any way at any matches." - it ain't rocket science to understand what goes on and I have been to the Super Shoot a couple times as well as studying everything about the BR game for many years. Long time experienced shooter and reloader just never have had the time to do matches - too many other things going on.

 

[sonofagun231]

Ferris Pindell told me that he tried some fast drying lacquer on the targets and it caused the bullets to cut clean holes that were easy to measure. He said that a swipe across the center of a target with a broad brush would dry quickly and greatly increase the precision of the measurements. Ferris and his experimentation are greatly missed by many of us. Good shooting.....James Mock

Thanks - thats probably the quote I referred to. See, a simple solution may be possible. Or will you now criticize, malign, and ridicule Ferris Pindell?

 

[Raythemanroe]

I wondered when Bob Schaeffer ( SONOFAGUN) would stick his head up over the berm again.
For the newcomer, Sonofagun advocates the use of Formica for target material as he claims it renders a more accurate hole than paper. What he doesn't tell you is that he has never fired a match, nor scored, referreed, or officiated in any way at any matches. He would walk behind the line at Harrison with his deer rifle over his shoulder and just look with that far away look in his eyes. I never trusted the guy and never turned my back to him.

I have highlighted in bold the parts that are absolutely not true - borders on slander. Correction is requested.

So what if I haven't "fired a match, nor scored, referreed, or officiated in any way at any matches." - it ain't rocket science to understand what goes on and I have been to the Super Shoot a couple times as well as studying everything about the BR game for many years. Long time experienced shooter and reloader just never have had the time to do matches - too many other things going on.

Why not shoot?


Ray

 

[jamesh]

I wondered when Bob Schaeffer ( SONOFAGUN) would stick his head up over the berm again.
For the newcomer, Sonofagun advocates the use of Formica for target material as he claims it renders a more accurate hole than paper. What he doesn't tell you is that he has never fired a match, nor scored, referreed, or officiated in any way at any matches. He would walk behind the line at Harrison with his deer rifle over his shoulder and just look with that far away look in his eyes. I never trusted the guy and never turned my back to him.

I have highlighted in bold the parts that are absolutely not true - borders on slander. Correction is requested.

So what if I haven't "fired a match, nor scored, referreed, or officiated in any way at any matches." - it ain't rocket science to understand what goes on and I have been to the Super Shoot a couple times as well as studying everything about the BR game for many years. Long time experienced shooter and reloader just never have had the time to do matches - too many other things going on.

Actually I think that would be libel.
Here is an explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEWhAQVfNew

 

[sonofagun231]

I stand corrected

This thread can be closed for further postings as far as I'm concerned - said enuff!

 

[aj300mag]

I stand corrected

This thread can be closed for further postings as far as I'm concerned - said enuff!

About 30 years ago targets for a pistol match were glued to a laminate material (stuff used in auto interiors at the time) for the reason of the discussion above. The results were underwhelming, not woth the time wasted on the project.

Bye!!!

 

[Uthink Uknow]

Bring it on, Ray the man, son of or anyone else. I have witnesses. I wasn't there alone.

 

[mikecr]

So out of curiosity, how well do bullet holes correlate to cal dimensions with IBS targets? Can someone pull one out quick & measure with calipers for this? Thanks

 

[Raythemanroe]

Bring it on, Ray the man, son of or anyone else. I have witnesses. I wasn't there alone.

WTF are you talking about? Doesn't matter what target you fellas haven't determined to use yet, an agreed universal way to measure should come first. To get so hot and bothered about a product that should be developed and used because someone thinks it could be done is time wasted. "I think it can be done so it shall be". This laminated paper, who makes it printed for targets at .20 cents a pop? If your gun printed perfect holes in magic paper you would still get different measurements.


Ray

 

[jonbearman]

Like I was saying when the bullet passes through the target the copper leaves a trace amount of powder or whatever and you can see it enough to measure it after you flatten the paper. Also if you use ink on the bullet it leaves a good mark on the paper. I tried backing up targets with good old cardboard to stffen them up and it works better than just paper. You may disagree but it is what it is. There isnt a club I know of willing to invest time or money to figure it out. But eventually someone will. I dont understand what all the arguing is about but it is a waste of time.

 

[sonofagun231]

The ultimate goal (or quest shall we say?) of the BR game is to put all 5 (or 10) shots thru the same hole. Millions of $$ have been spent to do such.

Now, if somebody ACTUALLY does that (a group that measures .000"), how are they going to know they did it for sure unless the method of measurement is EXACT? If they can't, what has it all been for then?

The precision of the equipment in this game has been getting progressively more exact since day one (Puget Sound right?) so shouldn't the target measurement methodology improve also?

Certainly puzzles me how men who are fanatical about the precision of their guns, scopes, bullets, loading techniques, even rests that cost as much as many guns, are satisfied with recording the results in a way any fool can see is INexact.

Here's an analogy: which of these two objects can you measure the diameter of with greater precision?

 

[Joe Salt]

I remember when I was a Kid a long long time ago, they were trying to put 5 shots in one hole at 100 yards back then. There are a few that have come close but not quite. The measurement will always be like .0001 off depending on who does the measuring. So why not just come and shoot 1000 yard with 10 shots and you will only have to worry about maybe 2.5 inches, lot easier to measure.(Center to Center)

Joe Salt

 

[Raythemanroe]

Joe, All you need is a tape measure for that.. Probably standard targets would work



Ray

 

[sonofagun231]

Reminds me of when I use to shoot thru a target at 100 yards and also have the bullets impact on one at 200 yards. Gave interesting results.

 

[Joe Salt]

Sonofogun231 It has to be the string, because Boone & Crockett scorers us one and if thats wrong all the records are no good!

Joe Salt

 

[aj300mag]

So out of curiosity, how well do bullet holes correlate to cal dimensions with IBS targets? Can someone pull one out quick & measure with calipers for this? Thanks

Too many variables. Depends on the backer board, wet or dry, is the bullet asleep or wobbling around...

I've seen holes oblong in the horizontal plane that it looked almost 1 1/2 calibers wide.

 

[sonofagun231]

Sonofogun231 It has to be the string, because Boone & Crockett scorers us one and if thats wrong all the records are no good!

Joe Salt

Dang! Dinnint think of that - sure are some sharp fellers around these hyar parts!

LOL

 

[Erik Cortina]

Take one shot at a target and have three different people measure it, it bet there will be a discrepancy in results.