Measuring groups

[Lazer]

You guys ever seen the movie step brothers? I love that movie and my favorite part is when the kid makes will ferrel lick that white dog shit! That was so funny!

 

[Patch700]

Lol , so call it .300" .... Will that make this silly back and forth go away..

 

[butchlambert]

You guys ever seen the movie step brothers? I love that movie and my favorite part is when the kid makes will ferrel lick that white dog shit! That was so funny!

Lazar,
I won't ask you to leave my thread as you told me on your thread. I'm kinda liking all of this!

 

[181backup]

On a 100 yd group target the distance between the circles is .250. The group in question covers slightly more than two circles ( .570-.580). when deducting the bullet diameter of .224 the group is about .350-.360. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Also, in response to why don't you measure the bullet holes? When measuring a group you don't measure a bullet hole. you measure to the outside of the smudge mark. The bullet hole could be anything depending on how the paper tears. Outside to outside of the smudge marks minus the bullet diameter and you have the group size. Group sizes can be deceiving to the eyes. That's why we measure them instead of having someone guess.

What he said

 

[Lazer]

Butch, just please admit after calling me a liar and all the pm's and all the nut hugging from your buddies that I'm right about my measurements. Please don't take it any further and let's get back to the challenge. Just say " lazer is a cool dude trying to have a freindly competition and I derailed it by questioning him about his honesty and I'm sorry." And now we are friends and if your anywhere close to kc missouri your always welcomed at my 1400 yard range!

 

[Lazer]

And when we go shoot and I beat you you can not post anything on the Internet about my groups until you measure them however you like. Once you measure them then you can post things like " lazer is a very good shooter, he is also good looking, smart, a very good handloader, has nice muscles, and he is an Internet shooting forum badass.
That's all!

 

[Tim Singleton]

Valuable contributor to the site there first class all the way
Nice

 

[Erik Cortina]

Guys, why not quit feeding the trolls? This thread has turned into something I had never seen in this forum before. We knew this would happen with the recent changes over at Snipers Hide. So why not just ignore the troll so we can keep having interesting conversations like we are used to?

 

[Lazer]

And don't forget the "troll" has layed down an honest 30. And is trying to start a friendly competition but it is difficult here because there is more talking than shooting by some. You won't find a troll anywhere on the net lay down a .357 avg. for a 6x5!

 

[Tim Singleton]

If we declare the troll the winner of his challenge
Will he go back under his SH bridge ?

You're the winner of the award

 

[Lazer]

Now that the dust has settled I would like to give some thanks.
1st butch lambert- butch told me in his pm "if I had been around comps. I would know how to measure" and "he doesn't care what my calipers say" thanks for keepin all the internet shooters honest butch. Seriously quality control is a good thing.
2nd Eddie harren- butches buddy sent me a pm that said " I don't know how to measure groups" "it would behooved of me to challenge butch" and "I need to enjoy my life being ignorant" thanks Eddie, let's see what singleton has to say about your value to the site.
3rd Tim singleton- tim, your name calling is unacceptable, not 1st class. You hurt my feelings calling me a troll. And I can tell you have hostility toward me, is there anything I can do to rekindle our friendship? But thank for your contribution.

 

[Erik Cortina]

How do they measure groups in 100 yard BR? I know they make an attachment for calipers, but is the group repeatable if different users measure the same group with the same equipment?

 

[chkunz]

As an outsider, but one who is an advocate of the shooting sports in general, I read this thread and could not help but wonder if you folks do not have a "rule book" that defines how you measure groups. Do you have a sanctioning association that defines standards for your sport?

 

[Dos XX]

As an outsider, but one who is an advocate of the shooting sports in general, I read this thread and could not help but wonder if you folks do not have a "rule book" that defines how you measure groups. Do you have a sanctioning association that defines standards for your sport?

Which folks are you referring to?

 

[SS427]

Here are the .223 groups I posted in one of these threads the other day. I'm not perfect at measuring my groups but these are pretty close. I've been called out before about not measuring groups accurately as well, but this time nobody said anything about my measurements.

I'm not calling into question Laser's groups...for all I know they are exactly what he says. I will point out the group he posted looks a lot closer to my 1/2 groups than they do the groups measuring in the .3s.

 

[Raythemanroe]

:




Ray

 

[Erik Cortina]

As an outsider, but one who is an advocate of the shooting sports in general, I read this thread and could not help but wonder if you folks do not have a "rule book" that defines how you measure groups. Do you have a sanctioning association that defines standards for your sport?

Which folks are you referring to?

I'm going to assume he is talking about the BR folks.

 

[aj300mag]

How do they measure groups in 100 yard BR? I know they make an attachment for calipers, but is the group repeatable if different users measure the same group with the same equipment?

Measuring groups can be subjective, you're attempting to center a circle (actual bullet diameter) that is etched into the template of the scoring device over a rough bullet hole that is smaller than caliber, could be out of round and has rough edges. Even using official target paper the hole can be .020" smaller. Yes you will get a variance between measurements when different people measure the same group, that's the reason you use a single scorer at matches so that all of the measurements are consistant.

 

[Tim Singleton]

How do they measure groups in 100 yard BR? I know they make an attachment for calipers, but is the group repeatable if different users measure the same group with the same equipment?

Measuring groups can be subjective, you're attempting to center a circle (actual bullet diameter) that is etched into the template of the scoring device over a rough bullet hole that is smaller than caliber, could be out of round and has rough edges. Even using official target paper the hole can be .020" smaller. Yes you will get a variance between measurements when different people measure the same group, that's the reason you use a single scorer at matches so that all of the measurements are consistant.

They are measuring down to the third decimal place. So the variance between two different experienced scorers will be low. For instance a group that is scored by one man as a .187" might be scored by another guy as a .185" or a .189"
Again as said above that is why there is one scorer at a single match so he measures all targets the same
I think when there is a potential new record the target is taken at the range and then scored by 3 different official score keepers before it is certified a new record
So the variance is small but it is there.
It's not the difference between a 3/8" group and a 1/2" group

 

[aj300mag]

How do they measure groups in 100 yard BR? I know they make an attachment for calipers, but is the group repeatable if different users measure the same group with the same equipment?

Measuring groups can be subjective, you're attempting to center a circle (actual bullet diameter) that is etched into the template of the scoring device over a rough bullet hole that is smaller than caliber, could be out of round and has rough edges. Even using official target paper the hole can be .020" smaller. Yes you will get a variance between measurements when different people measure the same group, that's the reason you use a single scorer at matches so that all of the measurements are consistant.

They are measuring down to the third decimal place. So the variance between two different experienced scorers will be low. For instance a group that is scored by one man as a .187" might be scored by another guy as a .185" or a .189"
Again as said above that is why there is one scorer at a single match so he measures all targets the same
I think when there is a potential new record the target is taken at the range and then scored by 3 different official score keepers before it is certified a new record
So the variance is small but it is there.
It's not the difference between a 3/8" group and a 1/2" group

Yup!

And after someone has done it for awhile you can judge the group size fairly closely when looking at photos on the innanet...