Easier said than done, I always end up with a few odd balls, hence my original question.Now I understand the question you were asking.
Dedicate brass to the specific rifle; don't mix 'em up!
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Easier said than done, I always end up with a few odd balls, hence my original question.Now I understand the question you were asking.
Dedicate brass to the specific rifle; don't mix 'em up!
Easier said than done, I always end up with a few odd balls, hence my original question.
A little late to this party ("Party on, Garth!") but to the OP:
Suppose, for illustrative purposes, that your original question, taken at face value, concerned safety alone. From my own observation factory ammo in a typical factory chamber can sometimes have as much as .010" of headspace, but commonly .007" - .008".
Seems like a lot. But consider SAAMI specs for, say, 223 Remington:
Cartridge Max datum length is "1.4666 - .0070" meaning the calculated Min datum = 1.4596.
Chamber datum Min = 1.4636 and Max = 1.4736 (these are explicit.)
Chamber Max datum minus Cartridge Min datum = 1.4736 - 1.4596 = .014. So, in theory, a SAAMI-compliant cartridge in a SAAMI-compliant chamber could have .014" of instantiated headspace in this example. Most cartridge's headspace calculations will be very similar.
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My favorite cases are cases that will not chamber because the length of the case is too long from the shoulder to the head of the case and or the case body is too large in diameter. No one ever ask; "WHY?", Manufacturers of cases do not make cases for reloaders that know what they are doing. If the manufacturer made cases that would not chamber I could use the cases to off set the length of the chamber, it is not possible to off set the length of the chamber with a case that starts out being too short from the shoulder to the case head.
Next comes forming dies; I have used 280 Remington cases for long 30/06 chambers. I have used 30/06 cases for 8mm57 cases etc..
Next best source of long cases; the firing range, I have gone to firing ranges with case length measuring tools when selecting cases that have been fired in trashy old chambers. Cases that have been fired in trashy old chambers will not allow the bolt to close unless they are sized. There is a belief a case that has been fired in a trashy old chamber is suspect.
F. Guffey
Can I safely shot the shorter brass in the longer chambered rifle without creating problems.
SAAMI specs mean a lot if the question was "Is it unsafe to fire a cartridge with X thousandths excess headspace?", e.g. one sized for a different rifle. Or if it was "What is the maximum headspace that is allowed?" Or "Can I safely shot [sic] the shorter brass in the longer chambered rifle without creating problems?"Way i see it for a reloader saami spec means little.
I was taught, among other things, that as a machinist you hit the target dimension. Specifically in regards to the chambering of a barrel I was taught that the empty bolt should just close snug on the SAAMI go gauge, which is minimum chamber length. I was always taught that since chamber length cannot do anything but increase as the rifle is fired and the action wears, etc. it is best to set it at SAAMI minimum {just close on a go-gauge}.
This is not a hard or difficult thing to do, so I have to ask....is there some reason I don't know about that all these "gunsmiths" are cutting chambers deeper than SAAMI minimum????? I mean, I am old school, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around a "gunsmith" that after charging for his "service" misses minimum chamber length by several thousandths and simply says, "here you go Mr. customer, all done" and then the owner gets home measures things {that is if he measures anything at all!!!} finds it to be longer than ideal and in some cases I read on here out of spec and simply accepts this and sizes his cases accordingly. What about the guys that shoot factory ammo???? In a chamber that is already on the no-go spec???? I get that many guys are sizing to the chamber...but you first have to somehow get the brass way over length....then, what do you say to a potential buyer if you ever decide to sell this thing??? "yeah, the chamber easily closes on a no-go gauge, but don't worry about it!!" I must be missing something here.
I was taught, among other things, that as a machinist you hit the target dimension. Specifically in regards to the chambering of a barrel I was taught that the empty bolt should just close snug on the SAAMI go gauge, which is minimum chamber length. I was always taught that since chamber length cannot do anything but increase as the rifle is fired and the action wears, etc. it is best to set it at SAAMI minimum {just close on a go-gauge}.
This is not a hard or difficult thing to do, so I have to ask....is there some reason I don't know about that all these "gunsmiths" are cutting chambers deeper than SAAMI minimum????? I mean, I am old school, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around a "gunsmith" that after charging for his "service" misses minimum chamber length by several thousandths and simply says, "here you go Mr. customer, all done" and then the owner gets home measures things {that is if he measures anything at all!!!} finds it to be longer than ideal and in some cases I read on here out of spec and simply accepts this and sizes his cases accordingly. What about the guys that shoot factory ammo???? In a chamber that is already on the no-go spec???? I get that many guys are sizing to the chamber...but you first have to somehow get the brass way over length....then, what do you say to a potential buyer if you ever decide to sell this thing??? "yeah, the chamber easily closes on a no-go gauge, but don't worry about it!!" I must be missing something here.
I certainly don't recommend shooting a rifle when the bolt will close on the field gauge. I have a couple of savage switchbarrels and i always set.them up snug on the go and not close on the no go.
As we know go is.saami minimum and no go is saami max and the.field gauge is.the.red flag. I think every shooter should own the go/no go gauge set or.at.the very least have someone verify their chamber on a new rifle. Humans do make mistakes.
I certainly don't recommend shooting a rifle when the bolt will close on the field gauge.
We are in total agreement sir. Especially the part about being able to verify their chamber dimensions....
Richard, I have fired ammo in one of my rifles that had .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber. The shoulder of the case never made it to the shoulder of the chamber and the case did not stretch between the case head and case body. Hatcher chambered a rifle with .080" difference between 30/06 ammo and his modified chamber, he did not experience case head separation; I had a friend that built 5 magnificent rifles using 03 and 03A3 receivers, he had 5 case head separations out of the first 10 cases he fired.
Again, I have a M1917 Eddystone with a chamber that is .002" longer than a field reject length gage, that means when I fire a minimum length/full length sized/factory round in that rifle I have .016" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber. When I fire a case in that rifle the shoulder on my case does not move when the firing pin strikes the primer even though I have killer firings pins in all of those rifles.
To make like simpler for me I for 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases by adjusting the die off the shell holder .014", Adding .014" to the length of the case from the datum/shoulder to the case head give me the magic .002" clearance. Not understood by most but backing the die off .014" makes it easier to size the case.
F. Guffey
It's pretty simple, I am trying to use some brass that came out of another rifle that was cut with the same reamer. To make a long story short I have two rifles cambered with the same reamer, by two different gunsmiths. Two sets of brass, when I measure a fire formed case from each set, one set is .004 shorter. Apparently? one of the smiths ran the reamer in .004 deeper creating two different chamber lengths. I am measuring from the shoulder datum point to the base of the brass.
Can I safely shot the shorter brass in the longer chambered rifle without creating problems.
There are many of.those unaware shooters out there that believe.if they jam a bullet in the lands then terrible things will happen.
In terms of shooting, safety and accuracy, which would you guys prefer to shoot...ammo that is matched to the size of your chamber {zero headspace} or ammo that is short by .004" or greater???? If you are buying a rifle to shoot as accurate as it can would you rather have one that is done with a minimum chamber length or one that is closing on a no-go gauge????? Gunsmith shows you two rifles that appear identical and they are exactly what you are looking for, then he tells you one is dead zero minimum chamber, the other is somewhere between no-go and field...same price, which one are you taking home????