Mathematical model of the bullet movement in the obstacle

[anton63]

Mathematical model of the bullet movement in the obstacle

Summary of the Thesis for the International Training-Conference "Theory and Practice of the Forensic Expertise in Today’s Context", Moscow, February 14-15, 2007

Expert Institution Deputy Director of the Independent Expertise of the Automobile Transport Center, Samara, Russian Federation

Anton Kolmykov

In dedication to the one hundred years of the Hague Convention Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, October 18, 1907

............

Bullet killing effect – quantity of kinetic energy lost by the bullet in human,animal) body. It is a sum of progressive and rotational motions of the bullet.

Bullet stopping effect – IMPULSE, transferred from the bullet to human body,is calculated through the product of speed by weight).

For example: Advancing enemy should not, after a shot, fall forward,at the shooter), but should fall on his or her back. There is a need to calculate the minimal bullet impulse, enough to perform this function. This is possible to calculate from the average human body weight and bullet getting in the center of his chest. The Makarov PM pistol’s impulse is enough for this.

Penetrating effect – bullet’s capability to penetrate a barrier, bullets tract in the barrier. There is a need to distinguish barriers by their properties, by bullet’s capability to retain its position in the wound tract and by bullet’s position change in the wound tract – with the stability loss and without one.

Armor penetration – bullet slug maximum penetration thickness of the steel barrier, so that the bullet slug retains its residual velocity, enough to loose 250 Joule in human body.

................

Today, many gun engineers and ammo producers,in the USA and other countries) produce expansive bullets for pistols. We can expect the same in our country. In my point of view, this is the loss of the moral values, absence of culture and education of the firearms producers. The legislators are also not aware of obvious things. The abovementioned facts concern final collapse of the concept of the limited casualty shooting based on the principle of reasonable sufficiency that has been carefully followed by major gun engineers and producers for the last hundred years.

... http://www.cneat.ru/bullet-2-en.html

 

[bgjohn]

HUH?
JM

 

[larrykramer]

Anton63: Interesting information, and links provide ballistic data and documentation not shared here before...Thanks

 

[bgjohn]

Information is useless to 99.99% of the shooters.

It don't mean a thing,
If you miss the 10 ring!

JM

 

[anton63]

Anton63: Interesting information, and links provide ballistic data and documentation not shared here before...Thanks

It is not pleasant to all! In Russia as. Understand and is pleasant to engineers on the weapon. 250 joules - initial data in projects of the weapon.We do this, students are taught.

 

[CPorter]

Anton,

It may not be nice and is definitely disturbing but it is something to think about. The reasoning I understand for the wounding capability of military ammunition is that it takes at least one other person out of combat to get the wounded back to the aid station. Combat dynamics have also changed. Recent struggles in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, have shown that. Even in European wars the wounded didn't always stop fighting and move to the rear. The premise in the paragraph "At the beginning of the previous century, the arms and ammo producers assumed that the maximum number of the wounded would recover afterwards – war is not forever and next day is going to be peaceful. Who needs a huge number of disabled war veterans in the neighboring country with a mortal hatred against you? " has been shown to be wrong. In the U.S. there are lots of disabled vets from Vietnam, and the recent wars in Iraq. Look at the former members of the USSR. Peoples of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and the other central areas can hardly stand each other even after being part of the same country for over 50 years. The best way to keep the hatred and resentment down is to not have a war at all.


Body armor is now standard in most armies so expending 250 joules is probably no longer valid for disabling a soldier. If you ever are so unfortunate as to be a soldier in a war then I'm sure then you will want ammunition that kills quickly. Having the person you just shot gather himself up enough to shoot you and perhaps some of your comrades is something no one wants.


People need to remember that when soldiers get involved they break things and kill things. If you don't want your house blown apart and your loved ones killed then don't let the leaders of your country lead you into war. You also have to remember sometimes that you don't have much choice. Plan for the worst and work for the best.

 

[bgjohn]

Anton63: Interesting information, and links provide ballistic data and documentation not shared here before...Thanks

It is not pleasant to all! In Russia as. Understand and is pleasant to engineers on the weapon. 250 joules - initial data in projects of the weapon.We do this, students are taught.

Huh?
JM

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

"limited casualty shooting" ........

What a bunch of hogwash!

Either Anton's translation skills are severely lacking or this study is pure bull...t.

I don't believe that this discourse has a place on this hunting and target shooting forum in any case.

 

[ConnorExum]

"limited casualty shooting" ........

What a bunch of hogwash!

Either Anton's translation skills are severely lacking or this study is pure bull...t.

I don't believe that this discourse has a place on this hunting and target shooting forum in any case.

Actually back in the late 1970's early 1980's the Russian Army purposely designed there new 5.45x39 projectile to easily deformed and thus create bigger wound cavities. Perhaps, not always killing the enemy but certainly in the hopes that for every wounded solider on battle field you tie up more resources and provide a great pyschological impact on the enemy.

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

"Actually", a bullet that does NOT deform and does NOT create a large wound channel, just leaving a small hole like many of the older FMJ designs, is more likely to wound and not kill than a bullet that deforms and/or fragments in the body cavity. A soldier is trained to kill his enemy, period. Any perceived advantages of wounding a combatant in lieu of killing him comes from a REMF's pipe dreams!

Just check out Dr Martin Facklers wound ballistic studies for details on bullet performance and incapacitation.

And I still maintain that this subject is not fitting for a site such as this one, so I'll refrain from any further comments here but I'll be glad to take it off line if anyone insists.

 

[anton63]

Actually back in the late 1970's early 1980's the Russian Army purposely designed there new 5.45x39

Specially did not project! It is a mistake of designing. Wished to make 5,6 mm. At a data set the secretary have mixed words - diameter and calibre. And at us it is a lot of idiots,enough).Experts of Russia know about it. Kalashnikov at us is not the good designer. Kalashnikov's automatic device, is the "Automatic Carbine",AK) which has made H.Schmeisser. It was in Russia till 1952.Has died and is buried in Germany in 1953.
The Russian version http://www.cneat.ru/versia.html
The German version http://www.schmeisser-international.de/historie/historie_5.php3

Today was correct to do calibre of 6,5 mm. Speed of 950 m/s. It was made by Japanese 100 years ago. Our designer Fyodorov has confirmed it 100 years ago. Optimum 6 mm. But it today is not good. Is ,Protection of a body)- better 6,5 mm.

 

[anton63]

The soldier on war by the life pays rules of conducting war! If you do not agree to pay in a life the soldier throw a nuclear bomb. For it with Americans also do not respect. Your militarians simply... Excuse! It so!

Give the reference on "Dr Martin Facklers",http://)

Addition to a theme: All of you use cars? We have carried out research of methods for examination of road failures. Very ridiculously! Weight of mistakes!

The Russian version: http://www.cneat.ru/nikonov.htm
Tell on the automobile sites. Amuse the American society. It is necessary for your lawyers to translate the text. Will judge people for road incidents difficultly. And how many earlier judged? It is our kind gift to all Americans. To you to like!
Today the American automobile experts are not capable to sell any program in Russia.

 

[anton63]

I assume, that a cartridge of NATO of 5,56 mm, is personal tragedy of that expert which in the USA has made the technical project for 5,56. It is obvious, that it aspired to reduce lethal action of a bullet, having reduced its diameter up to 6 mm. The purpose, reduction of calibre, it could not specify openly in the technical project. Executors, did not know the true purpose, were delighted to results. A result became not less than triple increase in lethal action of a bullet. Instead of 20-30 Joule on 1 Óentimeter of length of the channel of a wound for 7,62 mm - 60-70 Joule 5,56,http://www.gun.ru/oxota0252.htm). Heads of the USSR copied all western and not looking on protests of experts, has copied a mistake.
Now it is necessary to correct a situation, having spent huge material resources. Who specially bad did not conceive anything, there are only mistakes.

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

I assume, that a cartridge of NATO of 5,56 mm, is personal tragedy of that expert which in the USA has made the technical project for 5,56. It is obvious, that it aspired to reduce lethal action of a bullet, having reduced its diameter up to 6 mm. The purpose, reduction of calibre, it could not specify openly in the technical project. Executors, did not know the true purpose, were delighted to results. A result became not less than triple increase in lethal action of a bullet. Instead of 20-30 äÖ on 1 sm of length of the channel of a wound for 7,62 mm - 60-70 äÖ5,56,see http: // www.gun.ru/oxota0252.htm). Heads of the USSR copied all western and not looking on protests of experts, has copied a mistake.
Now it is necessary to correct a situation, having spent huge material resources. Who specially bad did not conceive anything, there are only mistakes.

WTF?

 

[anton63]

WTF?

I shall make laugh further.
On the channel the Discovery have shown experiment: shooting in water from the weapon of the USA,Two cheerful persons!). Bullets of the USA collapsed! They collapse at hit in the person? Collapse!Bullets collapse on a part. Designers of the weapon of the USA are not able to do calculation of durability. The doctor of the USA is worse than the student of Russia. Ridiculously? Is not present not ridiculously! It is probable, that at military factories steal metal. Break technologies? It is a shame of America! Engineers of the world together with the channel the Discovery Are dared all.
I badly speak in English. You understand me!
Ask questions! Why bullets of the USA collapse? Who is guilty?
If have made specially, they....
Everyone think, that they have made specially.

Bullets of the USSR and Russia do not collapse if to shoot at water.

 

[jtm]

WTF is true said word.for the fish that will be big very larger bulit must we have used.Famous rusain fish tekneek.LOL very muchly

 

[anton63]

Gonna get me some of those Russian bullets for my next fishing trip...

Experiment. Shooting in water. Cartridges and the weapon of Russia. The ricochet from water is approximately equal 13 degrees from a vertical to a surface of water. .
http://www.cneat.ru/bullet.htm

Bullets of the USA explosive,"dum-dum"). Are forbidden by the convention. The military USA it is necessary to direct to prison, to Siberia. In prisons of Siberia it is a lot of empty seats.

At military schools of the USA learn badly. Very bad academies.Militarians are praised, that bullets of the USA explosive,"dum-dum")! Shame of the USA,NATO) for the whole world.

 

[rstreich]

It looks like Anton might just be a Russian version of an anti-gunner. The line below was taken from the paper he referenced. It is out of context, but is rather interesting:

People must not have the right to bear and store combat and hunting weapons for self-defense.

It seems fair to take it out of context, however, since it is so common here in the States for some groups to focus on a small aspect of the issue in order to chip away at the larger issue. Perhaps this is the real intent.

His whole premise is just too weird to me: I should use ammunition that won't cause undue damage to the person who is trying to kill me. It hurts just to try and think about that.

Anton, what do you hope to accomplish here?

robert

p.s. I tried adding some Russian, but it just got trashed.

 

[anton63]

It looks like Anton might just be a Russian version of an anti-gunner.

I am not anti-gunner. I the engineer on a small arms of the Ministry of Defence of Russia. Such people as I, give the task to military factories on manufacturing of the weapon. Designers carry out tasks of the Customer. I am not obliged to explain to a factory the reason.
There is a culture of war. There is a culture of the weapon.
It is badly clear? People badly understand it. Experts understand.

I think, that in America there are no experts! They were for a long time. Now is not present.

In the USA there was a tragedy on September, 11th. It is absence of culture of war of the USA and the opponent. Will be in the world still! It is a problem.I think, that the opponent has reminded the USA the convention on rules of conducting war,Click Here.

I studied in military engineering academy in the USSR. Well-known in the world, strongly known - 33 faculty of city of Penza in Russia. A speciality: a small arms. Kalashnikov for our students is not the leader! It for us - the bad Executor .

In the USSR trained 15-20 people - 5 years. Learned arabs and all the countries of the East Europe on 2-3 persons in a year.,Students of Iraq and Syria studied). In the world of experts it is not enough. All graduates of our speciality.

Lacks and problems of the weapon of Russia and America, me very well-known. The reason for that are: Each person thinks of itself, that it and is the expert. The problem for the expert - to hold a post in the chapter of manufacture of a small arms both in Russia and in America.

I the expert in court. I know, that the weapon, bullets - 5,56 and 5,45 all is necessary to destroy. The substantiation is in the report cneat.ru/bullet-2-en.html. Very simply all is written. All engineers have already understood a problem. There is a translation into the Arabian language. We shall wait, when all in the world will read through. In this problem for a long time are engaged in the United Nations Organization.www.gun.ru/oxota0252.htm -It is clause of the professor from Petersburg. The military doctor on a fighting trauma. He is person very dear in the world.

Project and make today any small arms under cartridges of 5,45 and 5,56 mm it is deprived technical sense, has no prospect.

 

[Tommie]

"At military schools of the USA learn badly. Very bad academies.Militarians are praised, that bullets of the USA explosive,"dum-dum")! Shame of the USA,NATO) for the whole world."


Anton,

I am quite sure you fully trust all the information your government, it's media and it's schools have carefully provided to you. But you can rest assured that the United States military did not and does not utilize expanding or "dum-dum" bullets. I understand that the culture of propaganda is still very alive within your country, so you are not to blame for repeating silly statements. But my friend, please refrain from continued verbal attacks. You are obviously a very intelligent man, but in this case you don't know what you are talking about.

Give it a rest.

Tom