match vs varmint bullet construction

[ghermitage]

I am interested in high BC bullets for long range varminting, but wonder about clean kills with these match or VLD bullets. They don't have to mist the varmints, just kill cleanly.

Anyone know of the varmint killing performance of such bullets e.g Hornady AMax or Berger VLD?

What is the difference in construction between these bullets and lighter varmint bullets?

This question determines choice of rifling twist rate - if high BC/VLD match bullets will do the job then I would optimise the twist rate for these bullets rather than lighter varmint bullets.

 

[techshooter]

I use the 75 grain AMax in my .223AI at ~2950FPS, to great effect. They are very good on prairie dogs out past 500 yards. Almost as good as the VMax, but not quite as explosive. The BC appears to be very close to the published value, based on my 600 yard come-ups.

I have sectioned the 22 caliber Berger VLD, Sierra MatchKing, and the AMax. The AMax is built a lot like the VMax, but the jacket is a bit thicker.

I am in the process of working up 105 grain AMax loads for my 6 Dasher, hoping to get similar performance. I'll post accuracy results soon, and range tests on the dog towns next spring.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[ghermitage]

Thanks, Chris.

What powder are you using with the AMax?

 

[AckleymanII]

What cartridge are you wanting to shoot? What range are you wanting to shoot?

I shot the 243 AI on P. dogs out to 550 with no problems with the Berger 69g VLD with a 12 twist 28-30" hart barrels.

I got very consistant instant kills out to 550 as long as I got a solid body shot.

I had a friend that was shooting a 6mm AI with the 75's at 3850-3900 and he was really smacking the dogs hard at 750 yards.

Along the same lines, I shot the 6 BR with the 70g SX at 3350 and the results were real sad. It took multiple shots to hit dogs at 350 and further due to the slightest changes in wind or as little as 50 yard changes in distance, no more of that for me, just no fun.

I shot as many as 6 times to hit one dog at 550 yards with that 70g SX in the 6 BR while my rifle shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards!!! I often had to shoot a p. dog more than once to kill it, or try and hit it again while it was dragging back to it's hole.

I think that a Dasher with a 75g V Max at 3550 should be awsome out to 500 or perhaps a little further. The Dasher has almost exactly the same cse capacity as the standard 6/250 and varmints would never know the difference. I've had two Dasher's and one 6/250, both are excellent varmint cartridges.

Good luck!

 

[ghermitage]

What cartridge are you wanting to shoot?

Actually, the motivation for these questions is selection of a cartridge.

Long barrel life is the top of the requirements list.
I was planning a 6.5x47 Lapua on the basis of Lapua's claim of it having better barrel life than the 6BR. Also, I now note your observations on the varminting effectiveness of the 6BR at longer ranges. However, a claim of great increase in 243W barrel life when using H1000 is causing me to pause on my 6.5x47 plans.

Looking at powder manufacturer ADI's tables,
http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/rifle.asp
AR2217,equivalent of H1000) isn't listed for 243 until the bullet weight gets to 95gr, which means that the 75 and 87gr VMax probably won't work well. The 105gr of the AMax is in the suitable range for use of AR2217 though, and hence the question of the effectiveness of the AMax on varmints.

To summarize the comparison:
6.5x47 Lapua with any bullet suitable for varmint versus
243W with H1000 and 105gr AMax or other heavy bullet suitable for varmints.

I expect the 95gr VMax could work fine in 6.5x47 with the right twist rate, velocity might not be much more than 3200fps but the trajectory it gives is fine.

 

[ghermitage]

I've had two Dasher's and one 6/250, both are excellent varmint cartridges.

What advantages of 6mm-250 over 22-250 have you noticed?
My M700 22-250 is up for a rebarrel, maybe I should be looking at 6mm-250 or Dasher.

 

[AckleymanII]

the 6/250 powder fouls much less than a standard 22/250. Also, I believe that the barrel life may be as much as 30-40% greater on the 6/250 using the same powder and approximately the same powder charge, at least with medium burning powders.

I shot my own 70 & 75g VLD's at 3550 in a 26" with 35.5g and 35.0g of H-335 in my 6/250 at 3550 fps. The H-335 in this case is real easy on barrels, and I have no idea whether or not this was a fast or a slow barrel.

I do believe that the 6 Dasher is more accurate than a 6/250, but if you were a guy that just wanted to shoot critters, I don't think that all he extra expense with dies and brass would justify the expense of the Dasher unless you were in a position to where you had a lot of disposable income to play with.

In the Accurate Rifle magazine, there was a guy that did an article shooting the 105 & 108g bullets with surprising accuracy an speed out of an M1A.

It's always fun to try a new rifle based on a wild cat cartridge, but don't be fooled buy the article that stated that the 6/6.5-47 would get more barrel life than a standard 6 BR I think is hog wash. More powder equals more heat, high tec BS gets pretty deep at times.

I would opt for a 6/250 hands down over a 22/250 if I were building a custom rifle...this is a no brainer. If you need the ultimate accuracy for long range 1000 yard critter shooting, then I would opt for a 6 Dasher or a 6/6.5-47. If you are on a tight budget, then go the 6/250 for a long range critter getter.

 

[Buzzbee]

"Long barrel life is the top of the requirements list"

If thats the case, stick with the 6BR, that's my #1 medium range varmint round, closely followed by the 22BR, I have over 3.5 k round through one of 6BR barrel, she still shines.

I find there are times I need to reach out to 800+ yds, for that reason I build the 6x47. So far I find the 6x47 it's not nearly as accurate as the BR, velocity wise is only about 8%~10% faster, as of today in my process of breaking-in and working up loads, I don't see a real advantage over the BR, yet.

My opinion may vari once she is dialed in,I'm hoping for).

 

[ghermitage]

extra expense with dies

Starting to look around at dies for 6mm/22-250 Rem:
There is a Redding series D three die set at $172.50,same price as for 6mmXC). I see Hornady doesn't list dies for this cartridge,only lists dies for the 6mm International which I gather is more than just a neck up of 22-250).

I guess none of the local gunsmiths will have a 6mm/22-250 chamber reamer. Who is manufacturing these?

Also, I guess there are no factory cases for 6mm/22-250, and that necking up 22-250 cases is what is done. Where to get a die for this neck-up?

 

[ghermitage]

I am not seeing that 6mm/22-250 dies are less expensive.
A Forster 3 die set for 6x47L is $122.60, which is less expensive that the Redding 3 die set for 6mm/22-250 mentioned above.
A Pacific Tool and Gauge removable pilot HS steel chamber finishing reamer is the same price for 6mm/22-250 and 6x47 Lapua,$138).

Accepting the 6mm/22-250 as having the right capacity, I hear that the 6x47L has just slightly less capacity than 6mm/22-250, so the 6x47L is looking like the best option.

 

[NeilNE]

Hornady will make a custom two die set for $125.00, as of last year. They need three cases fired three time.

 

[AckleymanII]

Compare the cost of the brass next.......WOW!

You can shoot in the high 2's and low 3's with a 6/250. Just how much accuracy do you need to shoot varmints with?

If going for the ultimate accuracy, I shoot a Panda 6 PPC.

Everybody wants to jump on the band wagon of the latest and greatest. The standard 6/250, which has 6 or so versions, is a
great varmint round and the brass is the least of your worries.

The 6/250 really starts to shine using the Berger 71g, 75g V Max, and 87g V Max , you would be really surprised at the range you have with this cartridge. Figure that the 6/250 is a 6 BR+300fps.
Barrel life with the h335 and the 70's should be around 6000 rounds at least.

Also, with the 6/250 using a long barrel, you can jack up the 87g V Max in the 3300+ fps range.

There is not doubt that the 6 BR is more accurate than the 6/250, but the 6/250 brass is DIRT cheap plus can be used in a repeater.

It's your hobby, go with what ever floats your boat!

 

[ghermitage]

The 6/250 really starts to shine using the Berger 71g, 75g V Max, and 87g V Max

What twist rate do you think best for this set of bullets at these velocities?

Barrel life with the h335 and the 70's should be around 6000 rounds at least.

That's remarkably good. Does barrel life fall off quickly as bullet weight increases?

Also, with the 6/250 using a long barrel, you can jack up the 87g V Max in the 3300+ fps range.

How long?

 

[AckleymanII]

I would make the barrel at least 28" long, you can always cut it off if you are not satisfied with it.

 

[12man]

This sounds like a very interesting option for my new 6BR it is built as a switch barrel. I already have a 22-250 which is a great round. My new 6BR is being built off my old Rem 700 22-250 Varminter which I shot the barrel out of. What kind of accuracy & velocity can be expected out of this cartridge with 75-85 grain bullets? How about recommended twist & barrel lengths for the 75-85 grainers? Thanks

 

[Northman]

Keith: your saying one can get the 6mm/250 shooting 75grain v-max,300fps faster then the 6br) at 3600pfs, and get around the same barrel life?

Its not that much smaller then the 243, wich has a, from what I have heard ) very limited barrel life.. is this just from this one powder?



If one is gettting around 4000+ rounds, it would be a very good varmint cartridge!!

 

[brickeyee]

The sliding sleeve in the Redding competion dies is not hardened. Have it reamed with the chambering reamer.

 

[AckleymanII]

My barrel length was 26".

I shot:

60's at 3850 in the 6/250 with amazing accuracy using 38.5g of H-335.

65's at 3750 with 37.5g of H-335

70 & 75g BT Custom bullet made on J-4 .925 Jacket with 36.5g of
H-335 @ 3650

Barrel life with H-335 is simply amazing, no wonder the military uses it.

 

[ghermitage]

60's at 3850 in the 6/250 with amazing accuracy using 38.5g of H-335.

65's at 3750 with 37.5g of H-335

70 & 75g BT Custom bullet made on J-4 .925 Jacket with 36.5g of H-335 @ 3650

I will just mention for the benefit of the unwary that these loads are considerably in excess of Hodgdon's "NEVER Exceed" maximum loads.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/6mm250.php

 

[luckde]

A shooter of both 6br, and 6-250 ack, the only justification for me to shoot my 6-250 is to push heavy bullets faster for help when the wind kicks up.
My 6-250m pushes Lapua 105gr bullets at 3050 in a norma case with 210m fed It groups as many have stated from .25 - .3 @ 100yds shooting 5 shot groups. Now my 6ppc, and br will do better under the same conditions, the 6-250 does not open up it's groups @ 200. At 500 with less than perfect conditions it will still lay down a 1" group. The lower capacity 6s shooting lighter bullets are more difficult in the wind.
If you do not plan to shoot heavy bullets STAY with 6BR! It's hard to beat with 60 to 75 gr bullets.