MATCH BULLETS

[LESLEY]

I have shot center fire comps all over the USA. Shooting rimfire is a whole different animal. As has been said lot testing is what you have to do. If you dont you will not get consistant results. I just got back from the range. I spent 4 hours lot testing ammo for 2 guns. I dont care what ammo you decide to shoot if you dont lot test. you will be lost.

 

[243winxb]

Clean barrel between brands when testing. Some bullet lubes dont work well together.

Or fire 10 rounds of the new ammo, to condition the barrel, before shooting for group accuracy.

 

[Dryfly24]

Eley Tenex is 37 cents a round. https://eley.co.uk/how-eley-achieve-olympic-accuracy-with-its-22lr-ammunition/
Then a very accurate rifle is needed.

All more then i want to spend for a 22lr.

Which is the answer to the question of why American manufacturers don’t make quality Ammo...

if you want high quality, accurate 22LR, you need to go with European manufacturers like Lapua and Eley. American companies make low quality, bulk Ammo for plinking; and they are selling it almost as fast as they can make it, so no need to compete with the Euros for the high dollar stuff that is a niche market.

Years ago, Federal made some of the best competition Ammo ever produced. It’s what our team won the olympics with in Spain. If they had been making money money on it they would have continued making it. But they didn’t so they stopped.

 

[1813benny]

Ken I guess you told me....

Always happy to pass my good humor along to others,,,,,,,

1Merlin
I apologize as I was not intending to offend if in fact you took it that way. If so, again my apologies.
Ken

 

[Dryfly24]

1Merlin
I apologize as I was not intending to offend if in fact you took it that way. If so, again my apologies.
Ken

Ken, I didn’t read the whole thread before replying. If I had I might not have bothered as your reply was spot on. . .

 

[1Merlin]

No one here owes me any apology for sure. I love to hear varying opinions and try to always appreciate them all... Seldom offended at any honest opinion. A few words don't always convey your thoughts as you saw them in your mind and I am not that skilled at defining what "I really mean..." I know better than to make open ended blanket statements.... but I do anyways....

Lots of really really knowledgeable people contribute to this Forum!

 

[dgeesaman]

My "guess" would be that, our " American" High Speed loading machines, of Today, DON'T weigh, the Powder very consistently, coupled with, POOR lead quality as noted, above ! The Manufacturers don't care, anymore, as they are, busy, trying to "fill the Bill" for UNDER $20 a Box, Bulk ammo for, the Plinker crowd.
I have a few boxes of 1990- 1991 ( a mere, 30 years, ago ! ) .22 Win. Super X that, are copper plated, 40 gr. that go, 1180 - 1200 FPS (actual, Chrno'd ) and I have shot the BEST groups so far, in my Ruger 10-22, 22" SS with, them. So, I KNOW they "could" build good Chit, IF they wanted to ! Since, I know that, most American stuff, has "Flyers", as stated by 1Merlin and others, I'm going to start using, Lap SK Std Plus @ $5 per 50 and SK Long Range @ $8. IF, I have to for any, serious shooting and at,.. Cottontail Rabbits !

.22 LR and .17 HMR have the same quality control challenges, except that match grade simply doesn’t exist in 17HMR. This led the 17HMR fans to do a little digging by disassembling some cartridges to see where quality could improve. Note that nearly all .17HMR ammo is made by CCI. The rest is made by Winchester and is actually worse.

The takeaway I remember is priming compound is inconsistently applied. There are variations in powder charge but in rimfire the priming compound is a major part of the propellant. It’s just not applied in consistent amounts.

One guy actually took the time to hand load 17HMR ammo. He disassembled and washed out the priming compound. Then he resized, reprimed, loaded powder and seated the same bullets. He got excellent (sub 1/2 moa) results.

Feel free to add in details about cast lead bullet making when discussing 22LR, just remember the good ammo is always lubricated.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ degeesaman,.. agree with, the Priming "issue", too !
The list of, "problems" with .22 lr ammo is getting, larger ! IF, I wanted, "supreme Accuracy", at 200 yd's, I'll drag out my .22-250 Rem with, 52 Grain Sierra BTHP's and MY own load that, I can, "control". NOTICE; I said, " I " ! Everybody, has their OWN preferences in, the "Shooting Games" I don't have, a $3,000 Target .22 so I, won't be spending, the .37 cents per round for that, AWESOME, Eley ammo ! I'm happy with, "Minute of Squirrel" ( Heads ) and some of, the ammo I can buy up to, about, $10.00 a box, like Center X or, SK long Range as, they will make ME, happy, as long as, they go,.. BANG !

 

[Dryfly24]

@ degeesaman,.. agree with, the Priming "issue", too !
The list of, "problems" with .22 lr ammo is getting, larger ! IF, I wanted, supreme "Accuracy", at 200 yd's, I'll drag out my .22-250 Rem with, 52 Grain Sierra BTHP's and MY own load that, I can, "control". NOTICE; I said, " I " ! Everybody, has their OWN preferences in, the "Shooting Games" I don't have, a $3,000 Target .22 so I, won't be spending, the .37 cents per round for that, AWESOME, Eley ammo ! I'm happy with, "Minute of Squirrel" and some of, the ammo I can buy up to, about, $10.00 a box ( Center X or, SK long Range ) will make ME happy, as long as, they go,.. BANG !

I hear people say that a lot. But what if the point is to get supreme accuracy out of your .22LR? Which for me it is. Then you need supreme Ammo and a rifle that can shoot it to its max ability.

I love the .22LR. It’s my favorite caliber far exceeding even the next closest centerfire which doesn’t even come close.

The real upshot is that even the most expensive .22LR ammo is still relatively cheap compared to most high quality centerfire.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

"Everybody, has their own preferences in, the Shooting Games" ( My quote from, Line 3 ) I'm NOT, disagreeing with anyone that, likes,.. Target .22's !
I used to be, a Trapshooting "Competitor" many Moons ago and had $8,000 stuck, in 2 Shotguns ( 35 years ago ) but, I Won many thousands of, $$$'s, several guns , Gold Buckles, etc. by, shooting Handicap Trap all over, the USA,. SO, I "DO" ,.. understand ! I'm just pointing out, the "pitfalls" of American made, .22 LR ammo and enjoying all, the enlightening comments here, since I got nothing "better" to do right now as, the Weather,.. sucks and I can't go out shooting. I HAVE 2 Rifles that, shoot Sub. 1/2 MOA but, I reload for them, and they cost less than, a Grand apiece with, Scopes ! I Plink and Hunt small Game with, a slightly modified, Ruger 10/22.

 

[Dryfly24]

"Everybody, has their own preferences in, the Shooting Games" ( My quote from, Line 3 ) I'm NOT, disagreeing with anyone that, likes,.. Target .22's !
I used to be, a Trapshooting "Competitor" many Moons ago and had $8,000 stuck, in 2 Shotguns ( 35 years ago ) but, I Won many thousands of, $$$'s, several guns , Gold Buckles, etc. by, shooting Handicap Trap all over, the USA,. SO, I "DO" ,.. understand ! I'm just pointing out, the "pitfalls" of American made, .22 LR ammo and enjoying all, the enlightening comments here, since I got nothing "better" to do right now as, the Weather,.. sucks and I can't go out shooting.

I don't have a problem with anything you said. I’m just making the point that some folks pursue ultimate accuracy in a 22LR not for the sake of accuracy but simply because they love the cartridge and want to wring everything they can out of it. As in my case.

I love target shooting with it, but I also love hunting with it. I most certainly just love having one around to go plinking with. Greatest little cartridge ever devised IMHO...

 

[LESLEY]

@ degeesaman,.. agree with, the Priming "issue", too !
The list of, "problems" with .22 lr ammo is getting, larger ! IF, I wanted, "supreme Accuracy", at 200 yd's, I'll drag out my .22-250 Rem with, 52 Grain Sierra BTHP's and MY own load that, I can, "control". NOTICE; I said, " I " ! Everybody, has their OWN preferences in, the "Shooting Games" I don't have, a $3,000 Target .22 so I, won't be spending, the .37 cents per round for that, AWESOME, Eley ammo ! I'm happy with, "Minute of Squirrel" ( Heads ) and some of, the ammo I can buy up to, about, $10.00 a box, like Center X or, SK long Range as, they will make ME, happy, as long as, they go,.. BANG !

What you are saying is right on point. This weekend i lot tested center x and SK long range. I found a lot of SK that shot better than the center x did at 100 yards. the ES for the long range was 25 fps for 2 10 shot groups. The Sk ammo is 3 bucks a box cheaper. I also tested a lot of SK pistol that shot really good. It just goes to show that if you lot test cheaper ammo you can find some that shoots as good a 10 to 15 dollar a box ammo. But the only way to find it is testing it by lots.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Dryfly,. YES they ARE, lots of, Fun! I'm just trying to, wring, the best accuracy out of my NON Target, Ruger that, I can get at, a "reasonable" price for, the ammo!
Funny thing, I gave, my very accurate, Lever Action, Marlin 39 A and my Anschutz mod 64, .22 Magnum to, my Grandsons,.. THEN went into "Panic mode" realizing that,.. I "needed" a .22 LR,..again ! Also agree with, LESLEY about those, "reasonably" priced boxes of, ammo and that, THEY are plenty good enough for, Testing IN,.. MY rifle !

 

[velocette]

Difference between expensive match .22 rimfire and less expensive stuff.
I sat and weighed on my digital powder scale a large quantity of assorted ,22 rimfire ammo. (about 3000 rds, never less than 300 of assorted lots)
What I found was the range of cartridge weight was between 51 and 54.5 grains for all that I weighed.
The price of the ammo was in direct relationship with its variation in weight. Eley Tenex, Midas +, both were within 0.1 grains of each other with NO outliers. Lapua Center X was +/- 0.1 gr with rare outlier, 0.3gr. Eley bulk was 51.3 ~ 54.5 ( ! ) with a bell curve peaking around 52.0 gr. Wolf match extra was +/- 0.4 gr as was SK rifle match again with rare outliers.
Following this marathon of boredom, I believe that the largest cause of weight variation is the bullet weight. There could be variations in propellant but there, a little bit does a LOT, also with the brass case, there is little room for variation. That leaves that big ole hunk of lead as the gremlin in the cartridge weight variation, which also explains the variations in impact.
Your milage may vary

 

[tomswede]

As far as I know only 3 manufactures are in the USA. Armscor, Federal and CCI. Armscor is fairly low line stuff. CCI has several that I would consider high end and Federal has UM which is excellent in most of my rifles... I shoot CenterX and CCI Standard. The CCI Standard is what convinces me that they are deliberately messing up their ammo as it will shoot a .3 group and then throw on out by a half inch. 9 in the strike zone then throw one at your head is not an accident....

Them messing up deliberately makes no logical sense. To do that would add cost to the product to make it worse. It would only make sense if the same maker made high grade ammo that it wanted to charge for more for and make sure that that ammo was better. In the case of CCI they don’t have that incentive.

 

[Dryfly24]

Them messing up deliberately makes no logical sense. To do that would add cost to the product to make it worse. It would only make sense if the same maker made high grade ammo that it wanted to charge for more for and make sure that that ammo was better. In the case of CCI they don’t have that incentive.

Absolutely agree, it doesn’t make any sense. I don’t know where people get these ideas. It’s a ridiculous assertion.

No one is going to purposely introduce a fault into their line. Why would a manufacturer absorb the expense of creating machinery capable of maintaining a certain tolerance, then purposely adjust it to come in under that capability in order to produce an inferior product, thinking they would sell more of the higher end product in the first place?

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Sunny and NO Wind Today so, I'm off to, do my part helping to, shut down, the "Plague" to come this,.. Summer !
Sage Rats ( AKA, Whistle Pigs ) have, disease carrying,.. Fleas ! Gonna shoot some, NON Match, HP bulk chit, at em',.. Thru my, NON Match, Ruger 10/22 as, that's exactly WHAT, I bought it, for !
Sun out, no Wind, pack full of Ammo and shooting sticks,.. YIPPEE !

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

As far as I know only 3 manufactures are in the USA. Armscor, Federal and CCI. Armscor is fairly low line stuff. CCI has several that I would consider high end and Federal has UM which is excellent in most of my rifles... I shoot CenterX and CCI Standard. The CCI Standard is what convinces me that they are deliberately messing up their ammo as it will shoot a .3 group and then throw on out by a half inch. 9 in the strike zone then throw one at your head is not an accident....

You can not compare Lapua CX to CCI-SV CX is designed to be an economical alternative to Midas+ that will shoot close to Midas+ and in some cases actually shoots better.
CCI standard is general ammo that is not meant to be for match use or practice ammo. like all ammo you can get some great groups, but the higher quality match ammo will be more consistent in shooting those tiny group

Lee

 

[velocette]

Hi-NV Shooter speaks the truth and good sense too.