Marking with laser - getting cheap enough?

[dnellans]

^^^ Good idea.
Gotta get a 3D printer- absolutely cool and useful for prototyping, misc small parts and just as a toy...

Meantime I think I'm going to give this a try to use with acid etching, cheap enough.

Cricut JoyCricut JoyCutting Machines

cricut.com

What is the plan with that? At $180 plus whatever you need for acid etch, you’re already at the price of a 5000mw laser unit.

Not clear to me that’s good enough yet, but still searching

 

[muleystalker]

Thats to cut out stencils, you can acid etch with a 9volt battery, some wire and alligator clips and some salt water.

 

[Spotshooter]

I bought a cheap 450 nm blue laser for about $30 on ebay (it claims to be 3.5 watts) and attached it to my 3d printer to make vinyl stencils for electro etching.

Gene - do you use a Marking methods machine - those look just like mine makes... but I don’t have a setup to make stencils ... cool !!

 

[GenePoole]

The software part was done with Inkscape and a plugin for lasers from J Tech Photonics. The plugin produces gcode compatible with RAMPS boards used by most 3D printers. In my case, I attached the laser power lead to the fan control for the printhead. The gcode command to turn on and off the fan will do the same for the laser. The vinyl stock is Cricut branded stuff used for their proprietary cutter machine that uses a blade instead of a laser to cut the vinyl, but it works out OK with a properly adjusted laser (use in a well ventilated area as the vinyl produces toxic fumes).

For the electro-etch side of things, I just used a 12V power supply, some muriatic acid from Lowes (diluted about 10:1) and Q-Tips in an alligator clip. The Acid etches faster than the salt water seen in some of the youtube vids on electro-etching.

The hardest part is transfering the stencil from the stock label with backing to the part to be etched. There is a process called "weeding" where the left-over pieces have to be removed from the stencil, but the pieces you want retained. Think like the center part left over from an 'O' that just hangs free once the outline is removed. There are videos available in the crafting world that describe best ways to do this.

 

[dnellans]

I decided to buy an "Ortur Laser Master 2" with the 20 watt (really 4.5-5.5W continuous) laser. $302 shipped to the US out of hong kong.

I went with this one because it is supported with the LightBurn software that looks like its the best standard software out there and it can also use gcode if you want to get into the nitty gritty. The Ortur branded laser has a finer focus point than some of the other cheaper versions. There are a couple of demos of people using the 15 watt version to etch with mustard, vinegar, as well as expensive cermark so I'm hoping the 20 watt will provide good results.

I'm also going to buy an air assist for it to just run off my shop compressor since they're cheap and look like if you want to get clean/deeper cuts its pretty much mandatory. So $20 for that and then $40 for lightburn. Should be into the whole thing about $375 to start.


If it won't black directly - at least I can cut out stencils and use Gene and Muly's method for etching!

 

[tac284]

I now see using the Cricut to make the vinyl stencil and then following something similar to this you tube video.

 

[xr650rRider]

Printing stencil with Brother labeler

 

[tobnpr]

I now see using the Cricut to make the vinyl stencil and then following something similar to this you tube video.

Thanks. Looks like I was on the right track. $200 and done

 

[tac284]

Thanks. Looks like I was on the right track. $200 and done

Ya, I went on eBay and submitted an offer on a Explore air 2. Now ordering some vinyl, I’ve got multiple things I want to use it for actually

 

[Kurz]

I looked for one where I might take barrels to have the work done- not a single one could I find within at least 100 miles. Small capacity- plaques, trophies, etc. was the rule.

Like you - I asked around locally and for a 1-off most places wanted $50 for ~30 min of work while I waited. Not unreasonable - but for an hour of my time to drive, wait time, etc. I'm willing to cough up a couple hundred bucks to do it in the shop is possible

That's too bad. I would have thought that due to the number of firearms related business in FL. that there would be a few suppliers for this work.

The reason I don't get into this is that there is an excellent supplier just a few blocks from the shop. I call the day before then drop off up to 8 barreled actions the next day which will be done by end of day. I don't have any need to rush and end of day lets me get a lot of work done instead of just standing around waiting.

 

[tac284]

@GenePoole are you using permanent or removable Cricut vinyl? I’m having troubles keeping the tiny little piece like the middle part of an “A” in place when trying to do the electro etching. Mine is the removable vinyl and I’m thinking maybe I should try the permanent?

 

[GenePoole]

I wasn't sure until I checked. It IS removable vinyl, but I use the transfer tape too.

 

[Walt Krafft]

Could i get a good barrel marking laser for $3000?

Yes you can! I bought a Chinese 30 watt fiber laser that was for sale on ebay. Cost with shipping ended up about 3500. It is nicely made and comes with software. The pita came when trying to load the software. The instructional video is in chinese and is for windows 7. It took a number of emails before I finally got a driver that would work with windows 10. Like all software it will take a learning curve to get good at using it and all its capabilities. I got the rotation unit, but I don't think I will need it for most barrels. In an hour I was able to create what I wanted engraved and burned it in a piece of cutoff barrel. It makes a nice mark on stainless barrels. You can leave it running for as long as you want. 2 minutes gave a mark that will work. I think it could get ATF deep if you need that.

 

[dnellans]

Yes you can! I bought a Chinese 30 watt fiber laser that was for sale on ebay. Cost with shipping ended up about 3500. It is nicely made and comes with software. The pita came when trying to load the software. The instructional video is in chinese and is for windows 7. It took a number of emails before I finally got a driver that would work with windows 10. Like all software it will take a learning curve to get good at using it and all its capabilities. I got the rotation unit, but I don't think I will need it for most barrels. In an hour I was able to create what I wanted engraved and burned it in a piece of cutoff barrel. It makes a nice mark on stainless barrels. You can leave it running for as long as you want. 2 minutes gave a mark that will work. I think it could get ATF deep if you need that.

Walt - I'd love to see a demo/video of that guy at work if you have time to make/post a video? Can you link to the model you decided to go with? I'm still waiting for my Ortur to arrive...

 

[Walt Krafft]

30W Desktop 150 x 150 mm FDA Fiber Laser Engraving Machine | eBay
This is the one I got with the rotary unit. As far as a video maybe.

 

[dnellans]

Coming back with a report out here.

Ordered the Ortur lasermaster 2 with 20 Watt (really 5W) laser from gearbest.com. Waited, and waited, then they pushed back the expected shipping date, then did it again. I eventually cancelled the order and requested a refund, which they did do thankfully. F those guys.

Re-ordered the same laser (few bucks more cost but "free shipping") from 3dprintersonlinestore.com and they shipped it 1 day later via 2-day DHL from china and it was on my doorstep. Good on them!

I'm a nerd so setup wasn't a big deal, skipped the built in software all together and spent $40 on the software that everyone seems to recommend from the start. https://lightburnsoftware.com/ about 2 hours later I was burning my first plywood panel with some test clip art/text just to get a feel for it. Its pretty neat.

But down to business... I got it to try and mark barrels. I've only been playing for about 24 hours but have some initial impressions/opinions.

"Mustard etching" which you'll find if you google marking stainless is pretty much bullshit. Yea it sorta works, but it rubs off with very little effort and the gloppiness of the mustard makes it totally unreliable.

Etching into just a regular old light coat of black rattle can actually does better than the mustard, by a lot. Its still not perfect though, a little more brown than black and then you need acetone to take the paint back off if you wanted just a mark. The look of etching the paint away does look cool. I've got someone bringing me some cerakote scraps to see if it will also etch cerakote the same way/look or not.

Finally I used some "cermark ultra" which is the industry standard for getting an oxide bonded etch on the side of metal. This is how black logos are put on stainless yeti tumblers according to the cermark company. This actually worked, I was surprised how well it worked. The marks that are left couldn't be removed by any solvent or gun cleaner i have in the shop. Some scratching and picking at it with finger nails couldn't remove any of it. However about 60 seconds of twisting the barrel in some steel wool -would- almost completely remove it (there is some sheen left on the stainless). For a "low abuse" area like a barrel this is going to be good enough for my personal needs, I think it would be up to the gunsmith on if that would be good enough for them.

Total cost - machine $320, software $40, $22 for the cermark spray (little can, covers 450sq inches they say)

 

[DickE]

I use the "Etch-O-Matic". Keep going over it with power supply. can go "black" or just deep on stainless.

 

[Spotshooter]

I’ve been researching a bit..

The vinyl cutters are great right up until you have something with a center in it like a Zero or 8... 9 ... then you have the problem of the center missing.

I already have a marking Methods machine, but I like to deep etch with can be tricky with the temporary one use stencils Because if you move the etcher around much it will wear away the stencil.

NOW what I have found -

Single use stencils - Marking methods has added a newer higher resolution temporary stencil printer - which is a PT-P900 (research it)... that has higher resolution that the P700. Some people complain the 700 doesn’t have enough resolution for small stencils - so you can buy one of those from Marking methods, or just buy one Off the open market.

Making your own DIY permanent / more durable stencils - Etch-o-Matic has a stencil maker that uses UV light (you print the stencil and then expose it to UV light, and develop it To make a stencil that will tolerate deep etching.

I’m going to get the 440 etchomatic stencil maker and give it a try later this year.

 

[PhilKeil]

I went to a manufacturer Laser school in Houston a couple of years ago on a dual source laser system . We were told the Ceramark was developed for NASA to mark parts so as to not add appreciative weight as well as not to disturb the structural integrity of the metal. If true IDK. They went into great detail on how it was to be applied etc. It is very expensive. When done right it is very hard to remove. I have a very good friend who has a desk co2 laser. He likes to play around with stuff. He started using spray graphite you can get at the auto parts store. He told me the key thing is the part has to be very clean He uses acetone. His test pieces when compaired sisde by side to ceramark took the same abuse as the graphite spay . I eved took sandpaper and a knife my self and could not scratch it. It is possible if willing to muck up the underling surface. best thing in his eyes as well as mine is it is a lot cheaper and much easier to obtain than ceramark.

 

[dnellans]

I went to a manufacturer Laser school in Houston a couple of years ago on a dual source laser system . We were told the Ceramark was developed for NASA to mark parts so as to not add appreciative weight as well as not to disturb the structural integrity of the metal. If true IDK. They went into great detail on how it was to be applied etc. It is very expensive. When done right it is very hard to remove. I have a very good friend who has a desk co2 laser. He likes to play around with stuff. He started using spray graphite you can get at the auto parts store. He told me the key thing is the part has to be very clean He uses acetone. His test pieces when compaired sisde by side to ceramark took the same abuse as the graphite spay . I eved took sandpaper and a knife my self and could not scratch it. It is possible if willing to muck up the underling surface. best thing in his eyes as well as mine is it is a lot cheaper and much easier to obtain than ceramark.

Cermark can be bought off amazon for $22.50 so it’s not all that hard to obtain anymore. I’ll play a bit more with my settings, I think some tough scraping with a knife would def remove it with mine - since steel wool polishing will.

A good CO2 laser is about 10x the price and 10x the optical power of what I bought, so I’m not surprised it makes a better mark. I can’t justify a $3000+ laser however.