Marking barrel cal.?pics added

[z1900]

Looking for a professional stamped or etched finish, marking on my barrels. Don't want to get to this part and end up with an eyesore. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Laer etching in my opinion. I was told in the beginning to go to a jeweler, award maker, engraver, etc. They all looked at me sideways and said " it's round, we work on flat material". Maybe the local ones to me didn't have the equipment for round stock, not sure. Either way, I have mine laser etched, .010 deep. Shows well through the CeraKote.

 

[Scott Harris]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

I recently had a commercial laser etching company do a bunch of barrels: was not happy with the stamping I originally received. Cost was $15 per barrel and they came out great. You want someone that can do YAG laser work: not CO2. YAG is best for etching steel and CO2 is much less effective on steel. Bring in a sheet of paper showing what you want and they should be able to match it pretty well.

 

[Robert]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Laer etching in my opinion. I was told in the beginning to go to a jeweler, award maker, engraver, etc. They all looked at me sideways and said " it's round, we work on flat material". Maybe the local ones to me didn't have the equipment for round stock, not sure. Either way, I have mine laser etched, .010 deep. Shows well through the CeraKote.

If you have some barrels to engrave and want to do it at home, look (EBay or elsewhere) for an old scorch engraving pantograph machine. Professional engravers and jewellers have since long moved to CNC and there is plenty of those âtographs availables with sets of characters.

I found mine at a second hand machinery dealer for a very low price, and it is incredible the amount of things you can engrave around you with it, tools, knive blades, etc, etc!!!

BTW, those pantographsworks no probem on round material when engraving is done axially, as it is the case for barrels engraving.

Mine is the smallest Gravograph, model who once equipped every clock and jeweller shop here...

FWIW.
R.G.C

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Laer etching in my opinion. I was told in the beginning to go to a jeweler, award maker, engraver, etc. They all looked at me sideways and said " it's round, we work on flat material". Maybe the local ones to me didn't have the equipment for round stock, not sure. Either way, I have mine laser etched, .010 deep. Shows well through the CeraKote.

If you have some barrels to engrave and want to do it at home, look (EBay or elsewhere) for an old scorch engraving pantograph machine. Professional engravers and jewellers have since long moved to CNC and there is plenty of those âtographs availables with sets of characters.

I found mine at a second hand machinery dealer for a very low price, and it is incredible the amount of things you can engrave around you with it, tools, knive blades, etc, etc!!!

BTW, those pantographsworks no probem on round material when engraving is done axially, as it is the case for barrels engraving.

Mine is the smallest Gravograph, model who once equipped every clock and jeweller shop here...

FWIW.
R.G.C

Thanks for the tip. I pay $50 a pop for the laser engraving and it hurts everytime.

 

[shortgrass]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

By federal "regs" a "manufacturer" ( don't know if any of you have that license or not), large or small, is required to mark the trade name, location (town & state), and caliber not less than .003" deep and .0625" tall (from deepest valley to deepest valley of the marking). "Diamond Scratch", with a pantagraph, looks good, but, you'll have he!! getting .003" deep. Requires rotory equipment to get there with that type of machine.

 

[Robert]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

By federal "regs" a "manufacturer" ( don't know if any of you have that license or not), large or small, is required to mark the trade name, location (town & state), and caliber not less than .003" deep and .0625" tall (from deepest valley to deepest valley of the marking). "Diamond Scratch", with a pantagraph, looks good, but, you'll have he!! getting .003" deep. Requires rotory equipment to get there with that type of machine.

Shortgrass,

Huummmm!

If the material is hard enough for a well shaped diamond tip not to penetrate, I really doubt a rotary cutter wjll cut it at all...

We are talking about soft steel barrel material hereand, even if QPQ treated; the scorch engraver will penetrate up to the soft undercoat.

I have scorch engraved steel up to 52 HRC. Sometimes needing 2 or 3 passages, but,although never measured other than visually, it was well over the reuqirements you state.

R.G.C

 

[shortgrass]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My mearurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My mearurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.

I'm curious of your method to measure the depth to that degree.

 

[Gundoktr]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

By federal "regs" a "manufacturer" ( don't know if any of you have that license or not), large or small, is required to mark the trade name, location (town & state), and caliber not less than .003" deep and .0625" tall (from deepest valley to deepest valley of the marking). "Diamond Scratch", with a pantagraph, looks good, but, you'll have he!! getting .003" deep. Requires rotory equipment to get there with that type of machine.

I do believe that reg refers to marking a "manufactured" part; a serial numbered one which must have a serial number.

Send it to me, I can do it in my Hermes.

Jim

 

[kendog]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

I picked up a used New Hermes Gravograph and two sets of characters on Ebay for around $150. WELL worth the cost in customer satisfaction and professional looking work.

 

[shortgrass]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My measurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.

I'm curious of your method to measure the depth to that degree.

I took a barrel stub, which I have plenty of, and set a 'test' indicator on a surface plate and zeroed the indicator using the unmarked stub. I them mounted the stub in my engraving machine and made several passes, using a new diamond, on X,Y,Z letters until I felt it was as deep as it was going to get in a reasonable amount of time. I took the stub to my lathe and 'skim cut' until the X, Y Z disappeared, no further. I returned the stub to the surface plate and test indicator and it measured .0035" less in diameter than my original setting. By my calculator that's .00175" per side. I did another 'test' by taking a piece of .375 x 2" O-1 flat stock and measured it the same way, surface plate & test indicator, for my 'zero' setting. I mounted it in the engraver vise and lettered it in the same manner. I have the good fortune of having access to a good surface grinder. Its' 'wheel' handle is graduated in .0002". I slowly ground on the O-1 until the letters disappeared and the went back to the surface plate. I had removed .002". Accurate enough? Gundokter, you better check those regs again. As explained to me by the ATFE "top dog" in the OKC office, much of what we do is "re-manufacture". We buy a custom receiver directly from the maker using our 07 (manufactures) license. We then complete the rifle by fitting a barrel, stock trigger, etc. ATFE considers this "manufacture of a firearm", and the marking regs I mentioned earlier apply! If the customer orders that same receiver and you provide a certified copy of your 07 FFL for "ship to", in the OKC office, they say the the licensee is the manufacture. Technically, the licensee provided the receiver using is 07 license, who paid who for it doesn't matter. Now, if a customer brings a receiver or complete rifle that he already owns and requests it be used ,,,,, the customer is, technically, the manufacture. It can be a confusing mess. If you, if operating as a 07, buy a firearm, re-blue it and then sell it,,,, the act of re-bluing is manufacturing. Painting a firearm is "gunsmithing". What constitutes "manufacturing" by ATFE differs from what the TTB considers "manufacturing". Like I said, a confusing mess!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My measurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.

I'm curious of your method to measure the depth to that degree.

I took a barrel stub, which I have plenty of, and set a 'test' indicator on a surface plate and zeroed the indicator using the unmarked stub. I them mounted the stub in my engraving machine and made several passes, using a new diamond, on X,Y,Z letters until I felt it was as deep as it was going to get in a reasonable amount of time. I took the stub to my lathe and 'skim cut' until the X, Y Z disappeared, no further. I returned the stub to the surface plate and test indicator and it measured .0035" less in diameter than my original setting. By my calculator that's .00175" per side. I did another 'test' by taking a piece of .375 x 2" O-1 flat stock and measured it the same way, surface plate & test indicator, for my 'zero' setting. I mounted it in the engraver vise and lettered it in the same manner. I have the good fortune of having access to a good surface grinder. Its' 'wheel' handle is graduated in .0002". I slowly ground on the O-1 until the letters disappeared and the went back to the surface plate. I had removed .002". Accurate enough? Gundokter, you better check those regs again. As explained to me by the ATFE "top dog" in the OKC office, much of what we do is "re-manufacture". We buy a custom receiver directly from the maker using our 07 (manufactures) license. We then complete the rifle by fitting a barrel, stock trigger, etc. ATFE considers this "manufacture of a firearm", and the marking regs I mentioned earlier apply! If the customer orders that same receiver and you provide a certified copy of your 07 FFL for "ship to", in the OKC office, they say the the licensee is the manufacture. Technically, the licensee provided the receiver using is 07 license, who paid who for it doesn't matter. Now, if a customer brings a receiver or complete rifle that he already owns and requests it be used ,,,,, the customer is, technically, the manufacture. It can be a confusing mess. If you, if operating as a 07, buy a firearm, re-blue it and then sell it,,,, the act of re-bluing is manufacturing. Painting a firearm is "gunsmithing". What constitutes "manufacturing" by ATFE differs from what the TTB considers "manufacturing". Like I said, a confusing mess!

I see...Reasonable enough I suppose, but just so we're on the same page, stating a dimension to be accurate to 1/100,000th. of an inch requires specialized equipment in a laboratory environment. I doubt your method's potential to be that precise, by far, but would serve as a reasonable guesstimate of the depth. Thanks for responding.

 

[shortgrass]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!

Don't take it so personal. I will question ANYONE claiming 1/100,000th of an inch accuracy in machining or measuring and I'll be wrong...probably about 1 time out of 100,000.
I acknowledged your method as being reasonable for it's purpose, but your claim that goes along with it is NOT! I'm done. Thanks again for responding.

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

It pains me to pay the price, but like I said, I get .010 depth using laser etching.

 

[Tozguy]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!

Does that mean that the ATFE has a method of measuring to enforce the specification? I'd be curious to know if they do and how they do it.

 

[Robert]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!

Does that mean that the ATFE has a method of measuring to enforce the specification? I'd be curious to know if they do and how they do it.

My contact at Gravograph indicates an average depth of 0,3 mmm FRIM the surface on construction steel (=4140?). He also points:
-The depth can vary depending on the diamonds used. There is sharp tips and slightly radiused ones and those need more effort or are intended for other materials.
-Scorch engraving is just like plowing and the metal removed in the valley forms a crater on each side edges, and this even increase the depth of cut.
FWIW
R.G.C

 

[z1900]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Thanks for all the feedback , I have found and purchased a New Herems Engraver close to where I live. Brought it home this afternoon put a barrel cutoff in and test some engraving. Can't say enough this is the perfect finish and professional look I was after. Thanks again Darrell

 

[X Ring Accuracy]

Re: Marking barrel cal.?

Well........lets see some pics