X Ring Accuracy said:Laer etching in my opinion. I was told in the beginning to go to a jeweler, award maker, engraver, etc. They all looked at me sideways and said " it's round, we work on flat material". Maybe the local ones to me didn't have the equipment for round stock, not sure. Either way, I have mine laser etched, .010 deep. Shows well through the CeraKote.
Thanks for the tip. I pay $50 a pop for the laser engraving and it hurts everytime.Robert said:X Ring Accuracy said:Laer etching in my opinion. I was told in the beginning to go to a jeweler, award maker, engraver, etc. They all looked at me sideways and said " it's round, we work on flat material". Maybe the local ones to me didn't have the equipment for round stock, not sure. Either way, I have mine laser etched, .010 deep. Shows well through the CeraKote.
If you have some barrels to engrave and want to do it at home, look (EBay or elsewhere) for an old scorch engraving pantograph machine. Professional engravers and jewellers have since long moved to CNC and there is plenty of those âtographs availables with sets of characters.
I found mine at a second hand machinery dealer for a very low price, and it is incredible the amount of things you can engrave around you with it, tools, knive blades, etc, etc!!!
BTW, those pantographsworks no probem on round material when engraving is done axially, as it is the case for barrels engraving.
Mine is the smallest Gravograph, model who once equipped every clock and jeweller shop here...
FWIW.
R.G.C
shortgrass said:By federal "regs" a "manufacturer" ( don't know if any of you have that license or not), large or small, is required to mark the trade name, location (town & state), and caliber not less than .003" deep and .0625" tall (from deepest valley to deepest valley of the marking). "Diamond Scratch", with a pantagraph, looks good, but, you'll have he!! getting .003" deep. Requires rotory equipment to get there with that type of machine.
I'm curious of your method to measure the depth to that degree.shortgrass said:Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My mearurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.
Robert said:shortgrass said:By federal "regs" a "manufacturer" ( don't know if any of you have that license or not), large or small, is required to mark the trade name, location (town & state), and caliber not less than .003" deep and .0625" tall (from deepest valley to deepest valley of the marking). "Diamond Scratch", with a pantagraph, looks good, but, you'll have he!! getting .003" deep. Requires rotory equipment to get there with that type of machine.
I do believe that reg refers to marking a "manufactured" part; a serial numbered one which must have a serial number.
Send it to me, I can do it in my Hermes.
Jim
I took a barrel stub, which I have plenty of, and set a 'test' indicator on a surface plate and zeroed the indicator using the unmarked stub. I them mounted the stub in my engraving machine and made several passes, using a new diamond, on X,Y,Z letters until I felt it was as deep as it was going to get in a reasonable amount of time. I took the stub to my lathe and 'skim cut' until the X, Y Z disappeared, no further. I returned the stub to the surface plate and test indicator and it measured .0035" less in diameter than my original setting. By my calculator that's .00175" per side. I did another 'test' by taking a piece of .375 x 2" O-1 flat stock and measured it the same way, surface plate & test indicator, for my 'zero' setting. I mounted it in the engraver vise and lettered it in the same manner. I have the good fortune of having access to a good surface grinder. Its' 'wheel' handle is graduated in .0002". I slowly ground on the O-1 until the letters disappeared and the went back to the surface plate. I had removed .002". Accurate enough? Gundokter, you better check those regs again. As explained to me by the ATFE "top dog" in the OKC office, much of what we do is "re-manufacture". We buy a custom receiver directly from the maker using our 07 (manufactures) license. We then complete the rifle by fitting a barrel, stock trigger, etc. ATFE considers this "manufacture of a firearm", and the marking regs I mentioned earlier apply! If the customer orders that same receiver and you provide a certified copy of your 07 FFL for "ship to", in the OKC office, they say the the licensee is the manufacture. Technically, the licensee provided the receiver using is 07 license, who paid who for it doesn't matter. Now, if a customer brings a receiver or complete rifle that he already owns and requests it be used ,,,,, the customer is, technically, the manufacture. It can be a confusing mess. If you, if operating as a 07, buy a firearm, re-blue it and then sell it,,,, the act of re-bluing is manufacturing. Painting a firearm is "gunsmithing". What constitutes "manufacturing" by ATFE differs from what the TTB considers "manufacturing". Like I said, a confusing mess!gunsandgunsmithing said:I'm curious of your method to measure the depth to that degree.shortgrass said:Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My measurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.
shortgrass said:I took a barrel stub, which I have plenty of, and set a 'test' indicator on a surface plate and zeroed the indicator using the unmarked stub. I them mounted the stub in my engraving machine and made several passes, using a new diamond, on X,Y,Z letters until I felt it was as deep as it was going to get in a reasonable amount of time. I took the stub to my lathe and 'skim cut' until the X, Y Z disappeared, no further. I returned the stub to the surface plate and test indicator and it measured .0035" less in diameter than my original setting. By my calculator that's .00175" per side. I did another 'test' by taking a piece of .375 x 2" O-1 flat stock and measured it the same way, surface plate & test indicator, for my 'zero' setting. I mounted it in the engraver vise and lettered it in the same manner. I have the good fortune of having access to a good surface grinder. Its' 'wheel' handle is graduated in .0002". I slowly ground on the O-1 until the letters disappeared and the went back to the surface plate. I had removed .002". Accurate enough? Gundokter, you better check those regs again. As explained to me by the ATFE "top dog" in the OKC office, much of what we do is "re-manufacture". We buy a custom receiver directly from the maker using our 07 (manufactures) license. We then complete the rifle by fitting a barrel, stock trigger, etc. ATFE considers this "manufacture of a firearm", and the marking regs I mentioned earlier apply! If the customer orders that same receiver and you provide a certified copy of your 07 FFL for "ship to", in the OKC office, they say the the licensee is the manufacture. Technically, the licensee provided the receiver using is 07 license, who paid who for it doesn't matter. Now, if a customer brings a receiver or complete rifle that he already owns and requests it be used ,,,,, the customer is, technically, the manufacture. It can be a confusing mess. If you, if operating as a 07, buy a firearm, re-blue it and then sell it,,,, the act of re-bluing is manufacturing. Painting a firearm is "gunsmithing". What constitutes "manufacturing" by ATFE differs from what the TTB considers "manufacturing". Like I said, a confusing mess!gunsandgunsmithing said:I'm curious of your method to measure the depth to that degree.shortgrass said:Robert, I have measured precisely. Even after several passes, with a new diamond, the deepest I could get was .00175". That' not good enough to make the regulations, and those regulations are enforced to the letter. Failure to meet the "regs" may cost the offender is FFL. My measurement method, I believe, is well thought out. A carbide engraving tool with the proper angle will cut barrel steel. Took alot of R&D to figure it out, though.
Don't take it so personal. I will question ANYONE claiming 1/100,000th of an inch accuracy in machining or measuring and I'll be wrong...probably about 1 time out of 100,000.shortgrass said:My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!
shortgrass said:My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!
Tozguy said:shortgrass said:My methods were accurate enough for ATFE, and, they're the ones I have to satisfy!
Does that mean that the ATFE has a method of measuring to enforce the specification? I'd be curious to know if they do and how they do it.