March Scopes

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
The idea that one BR scope will come on the scene and all others will be sold to Varmint Shooters to make room for this scope called March earns a in my small book. I have to give Leupold credit the Comp Scope especially the 45x was a vast departure from the 36X series of BR scopes of which I own many. My desire is to buy a Comp 45X, I could buy 2 of these for the price of a March and still have change, enough for some Lapua brass and some primers.
Now my buddy Wayne Campbell got extremely hot last year and made the HoF. He credits his Leupold Comp for much of his success. This is not a promo for Leupold scopes but more a awareness for shooters on a budget that God has not blessed any one BR scope. The hype over the March scope is like the hype over Kelbly triggers. Though good neither one has won a National Tournament in BR. The IBS Nats are coming up in June we shall see if enough March scopes will be around to battle the Leupold's, Weaver's, Bausch & Lomb's, Lyman's, Sightron's, and whatever the old guys use. Lot's of March scopes bought at the Super Shoot. My druthers say the Leupold Comp's will still be up there.
The price is an issue with the March. At $2100 a little less than a new Hoehn rifle. The price of a new BR gun can easily top $5000 now. Insane. I recently picked up my 4th Weaver 36x. All 4 together new would cost less than a March. Think about in the last 2 years BR scopes with the March have gone up 5 times compared to a Weaver.
Triggers have doubled with a Kelbly over a Jewell. Bullets have gone from $17 to $23. Folks it's not that people don't want to shoot BR it's that they can't afford to go top cabin anymore.
Don't give up hope. Used anything in BR except barrels is affordable and worth buying, even a used BR barrel in the right smith's hands could be a gem. Many HOF shooters were on a budget during the years they shot. You can't buy wins in this Sport. I've only lost to better shooters.
I have seen a March scope, nice idea but not worth twice the price of a Comp. Leupold's are made in America by shooters that understand BR. March scopes are made by 3 foreign engineers that probably make Telescopes in the afternoon.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[butchlambert]

I disagree at this time with Steve. March won the Cactus, the Super Shoot, and the Texas State 4 gun. It will be at the Nationals this year and will have plenty in the top 10 even though only a few have them at this time. The camera quality ED glass is superior. When you can see 6mm bullet holes at 600 yds on a good day you have an outstanding scope. My frozen Leu comp 45 with TSI scope mounts and rings work great. I would have bought a March had I not frozen mine.
Butch

 

[StephenPerry]

Butch
Leupold has won every shoot many times that you mentioned. March didn't win those Shoots you mentioned the shooters won those Shoots. The key is what you said will there be enough March scopes at both Nats to pick up some wins. Seems funny 2 years ago those that sought change jumped on the frozen scope/external adjustments is that technology going to be dumped for an un-proven scope? A few wins by guys that would have won with another scope anyway doesn't sound like a platform for greatness. I thought you Texan guys liked to make your own changes thus the frozen scopes and the Buckys mounts. Next we will have 3 engineers from the other side of the Ocean making our barrels.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[Forum Boss]

Any scope that can reliably resolve 6mm bullet holes at 600 yards, even 30% of the time,morning relays before mirage) will change the 600 yard game, and will be desired by the top 600 yard shooters. Lynn just explained why:

"I shot right next to Lou Murdica at the NBRSA 600 Yard Nationals.I was using a 12-42 Nightforce and could see the bullet holes from my 6BR only in the white and only on one target. Lou could call my shots better than I could. I looked through his March scope and could clearly see all my shots."

In F-Class, the top shooters have $1350 Nightforces, and often a back-up rifle with a back-up scope. So that's $2700 worth of optics. Plus most of those guys have a nice spotting scope as well. Ching, Ching $$$.

It seems to me either BR IS the Formula 1 of shooting and you allow the equipment race, or it's not. If we open that Pandora's box of limiting equipment then where do you begin and where do you end. What about $800 front rests and $1000 stocks? I proposed a class of bench rifle that could shoot a variety of matches from 100-1000 yards, and be limited in componentry so one could be competitive with a $1500.00 investment including scope. NOT to replace existing rifles, but to shoot alongside them in its own "NASCAR" class.

Some guys liked the idea, some said "build it and we'll see", and others thought it was a stupid idea because if it can't outshoot a $3000+ PPC at 100 yards the gun has no place on a bench.

But back to scopes--I thought $800 was a fortune when I paid that for a Leupold 8-25 to shoot at 600. Now the serious guys have replaced their Leupys with NFs at considerably more cost.

Steven, if you cringe at the cost of a March, wait 'til the Schmidt and Bender 12-50 hits our shores at $2800 a pop. I know a dozen long-range shooters who have already set aside the money. And right now, many "tactical" competitors are paying $2500 for a U.S. Optics or S&B.

I guess if you wants to play, you got to pay....

 

[StephenPerry]

Paul
Never a doubt in BR that the well healed will buy anything and horde everything else they can afford. This cash cow approach keeps shooters away from a competitive Sport that see us as glutinous. Everybody talks about new shooters coming in and juniors like we left them at the start line. The case is their budget keeps them out not the competition. Some have learned how to turn their Sport into a business. Any how the grand pubah's worship each other in this Sport. For me I'm a Local shoot guy that makes a few big shoots a year. Right now my extra money is going into my son's College education not a super high dollar scope.
Benchrest will survive because talent precedes flashy equipment.I am one of those. I have never owned a new gun since my stolen one in 1977. Most of my scopes are hand me downs and my bullet making dies are not new. But I have fun shooting BR. I run a Shoot and I help people on this Web and at my Shoots. What else can you ask for.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

$2800.00 for a scope, no thanks..that's bordering on stopping our shooting sports..if thats what is going to take in the future to be competitive looks like alot of guys will be finding another sport...I'll have lots for sale if it comes down to this...

 

[RGraham]

I have looked through Lou’s,March) scope and the view is very nice. That they seem to be holding their point of aim well is even nicer. I hope to one day be able to afford such a nice scope but the simple fact is that right now it is way out of my very limited budget. But that does not mean us low budget guys can’t compete. All that equipment that was traded for the latest and greatest has to go somewhere…,and a lot of it has gone to me!) I mostly use the Weaver 36 and although it is a far cry from a March, it has served me well. Still, I am happy to see this kind of product development going on and applaud those that have had a hand in it. I hope to be able to take advantage of it one of these days.

 

[EdwinD]

I can afford to own any scope that is available.

TIME, and ONLY time will establish if march will be reliable without a "fix".

The warranty on march is FIVE years to the original purchaser.

NO warranty to subsequent purchasers.

LEUPOLD and NIGHTFORCE are much more consumer friendly, and their respective warranties and service policies speak volumes.

IF march requires NO warranty or service, now or after FIVE years, I will be financially able to purchase one or several.

Edwin D.

 

[butchlambert]

Now Steve, the way you put it you could use a BSA and win. I have been around the block and know that one component will not win a match. For short range BR my frozen Leu. 45 with Bukys TSI mounts work great as I mentioned. I don't have the funds for a March at this time, but are you wanting to handicap the guys that use them?
I think the best thing about the March is the other scope companies will have to step up to the plate to compete. We will all come out the winner.
Butch

 

[StephenPerry]

Butch
Let's hope the other scope companies increase their efficiency and lower that don't open the box send the scope back to the manufacturer attitude that some shooters have. I think this March scope thing hit most people by surprise. What I have seen Jackie, BUckys, and Brackney doing will go for a long time.
Again I have seen several March scope I hope they are everything the owners want them to be.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[jackieschmidt]

For years, we in 100-200 yard Benchrest told the Scope companies that the ONLY thing that mattered to us was a scopes ability to hold Point of Aim, time after time. We didn't care about big gloosy adds that touted multiple lens coating, exact clicks, 30 minutes of adjustment, or anything else that DOES matter to 99 percent of the shooting public, but is of no consequence in the 100-200 yard Competitive Arena.

March might very well have given the Benchrest Community what it wanted, and yes, you have to pay. Even though the warranty is not as good as a Leupold, after 5 years, I am sure they would fix any problem for a fee.

In the mean time, several of us just "took the bull by the horns" and solved the problem ourselves. First, Arnold Jewell developed a viable external adjusment mount that encorporated a frozen scope. The problem was that nobody wanted to tear into an expensive scope, see what had to be accomplished in order to "freeze" it,,I mean really freezing it, not just adding some screws), getting rid of any uneeded parts, and of course, voiding any warranty in the proccess.

But we did just that. I have been shooting these set-ups for going on three years, with no problems.

Then a rather creative shooter named Gene Bukys developed an external adjustable mounting system that uses the strength of the metal in the mount as the tensioning agent. This, along with either a frozen 36x or 45x has proven to be a very reliable set-up. Some of the top shooters in the Country are using Gene's system.

Bob Brackney is now manufacturing a external adjustable system that is based on the same priciple as the Jewell. The workmanship, as with the Gene's, is impeccable.

The point is, for years, we had to put up with the age old problem of wondering whether a scope was good or not. And I am not talking about a scope that suddenly goes bad and moves the POI 1 inch on the target. I am talking about a scope that added maybe .030 to .070 or so to each group. That is devestating because the last thing you suspect is that scope. You just keep wallowing around in mediocrity, shooting .300 aggs when you could have been shooting .230 aggs.

The great thing is that we now have a choice. The old "that's just too bad" attitude doesn't hold water any more. The March is now available, and looks to be a top notch product. But, if you are heavilly invested in scopes already, you can have one frozen, purchace one of the Genes mounts, and forget about scope problems.

And who said Benchrest was "stagnated'. There are a lot of shooters out there every day coming up with ideas in an attempt to accomplish what we all crave, smaller aggs........Jackie