Mandrel or not?

[60723]

I am somewhat competitive at midrange Benchrest and want to dabble in long range. I shoot BR, BRA and Dasher. Most recently I have been using Harrells sizer dies, mandrels and arbor seaters. I have been doing about a 50% neck cleanup. Only using Lapua brass and anneal every firing. Getting a new rifle and searching for dies. Looking at SAC sizing die. Called SAC today. The fellow I spoke with was very informative but was telling me a lot of stuff that I’m sure was correct, but confused me somewhat. I felt like I was taking up too much of his time. He told me I shouldn’t be turning necks at all( all my rifles are .272). I think he said I would be better off not using a mandrel anyway.
I want to build the straightest ammo possible just to give me more confidence if nothing else. I would appreciate input from someone in the know about whether a mandrel helps or hurts building accurate ammo. Fixing to start with new brass shortly. Thank you.

 

[Bill Norris]

I am somewhat competitive at midrange Benchrest and want to dabble in long range. I shoot BR, BRA and Dasher. Most recently I have been using Harrells sizer dies, mandrels and arbor seaters. I have been doing about a 50% neck cleanup. Only using Lapua brass and anneal every firing. Getting a new rifle and searching for dies. Looking at SAC sizing die. Called SAC today. The fellow I spoke with was very informative but was telling me a lot of stuff that I’m sure was correct, but confused me somewhat. I felt like I was taking up too much of his time. He told me I shouldn’t be turning necks at all( all my rifles are .272). I think he said I would be better off not using a mandrel anyway.
I want to build the straightest ammo possible just to give me more confidence if nothing else. I would appreciate input from someone in the know about whether a mandrel helps or hurts building accurate ammo. Fixing to start with new brass shortly. Thank you.

In my opinion a mandrel helps separately after the brass has been thru the bushing die. I would not want it in my sizing die.

 

[DHD]

I use them on my AR dies. For the dies used for my bolt actions I do not use them.

My AR's are as tuned as good as I can get them but fired cases do get dented necks (because it is what it is). A bushing sizer die without an expander button doesn't iron out the dent. The expander step still goes quick so I don't mind, and I have such nice expanders....

 

[Ccrider]

Test for yourself and see if there is a difference. Turn vs unturned necks and using a mandrel and not using a mandrel.

 

[Bill Norris]

Test for yourself and see if there is a difference. Turn vs unturned necks and using a mandrel and not using a mandrel.

This ^^^^^^^

 

[Ccrider]

Let us know your results. I will share my results but do not want to influence your testing.

 

[D-4297]

There are 9,341 ways to skin a cat . When it comes to "accurate" ammo , their is no such thing as "perfect" . Just what works consistently , with a degree of accuracy !
As a TR Shooter who has won a little , and shot some 200's , I use a Bushing Die , followed by a Expander , after deburring the inside / outside of the neck . Run-out is .001 - .0015 ......

 

[Bill Norris]

There are 9,341 ways to skin a cat . When it comes to "accurate" ammo , their is no such thing as "perfect" . Just what works consistently , with a degree of accuracy !
As a TR Shooter who has won a little , and shot some 200's , I use a Bushing Die , followed by a Expander , after deburring the inside / outside of the neck . Run-out is .001 - .0015 ......

Yea I don't watch runout closely but normally mine is along those same lines.

 

[Ccrider]

Run-out is .001 - .0015

“Run out” is overrated!

Have not checked it in years.

 

[Webster]

I am somewhat competitive at midrange Benchrest and want to dabble in long range. I shoot BR, BRA and Dasher. Most recently I have been using Harrells sizer dies, mandrels and arbor seaters. I have been doing about a 50% neck cleanup. Only using Lapua brass and anneal every firing. Getting a new rifle and searching for dies. Looking at SAC sizing die. Called SAC today. The fellow I spoke with was very informative but was telling me a lot of stuff that I’m sure was correct, but confused me somewhat. I felt like I was taking up too much of his time. He told me I shouldn’t be turning necks at all( all my rifles are .272). I think he said I would be better off not using a mandrel anyway.
I want to build the straightest ammo possible just to give me more confidence if nothing else. I would appreciate input from someone in the know about whether a mandrel helps or hurts building accurate ammo. Fixing to start with new brass shortly. Thank you.

I would not trust a guy that said not to ever turn necks. It can't hurt anything to at least give them a clean up cut to get them more uniform in thickness. Maybe no improvement but certainly no damage.

 

[Jeff Porter]

I use the mandrel and bushing sizer to control neck tension. Even with annealing I get just a bit tighter results on target and on the chrono when I use the mandrel. I would not freak out if I went to a match with ammo that had not been mandreled but it is part of my process now.

 

[MikeRu]

Maybe he said no turn because your chamber is 272, I think for Lapua you could skip turning. Or uniform by removing just a thou or so.

 

[6BRA]

Maybe he said no turn because your chamber is 272, I think for Lapua you could skip turning. Or uniform by removing just a thou or so.

Lapua aint that good. Without turning necks, you will have .0015 runout just from uneven necks. That's standard, every piece of brass I've ever measured has high sides and low sides.

 

[Bill Norris]

Lapua aint that good. Without turning necks, you will have .015 runout just from uneven necks. That's standard, every piece of brass I've ever measured has high sides and low sides.

WOW !!! .015 or .0015 ?

 

[6BRA]

.0015..sorry

 

[Bill Norris]

.0015..sorry

No worries Thought u might have fat fingered it. Happens a lot.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

I thought it was pretty well decided, a bit of runout doesn’t mean anything. And a mandrel rounds out the ID of the case so that OD that you’re turning is irrelevant?

 

[G Liles]

“Run out” is overrated!

Have not checked it in years.

I have never checked bullet run out. Well I guess I have if you call rolling the cartridge across the table to see if the bullet is wobbling, I have!!

 

[MikeRu]

Lapua brass shoots pretty well without turning or cleanup, some records were set with no turn brass.

 

[Chilly807]

I have never checked bullet run out. Well I guess I have if you call rolling the cartridge across the table to see if the bullet is wobbling, I have!!

I thought I was the only one that did that.. good to know I'm not alone. I did eventually get a dial indicator and built a runout testing jig. Now the jig gathers dust on a shelf and the indicator gets used to check brake rotor runout