Mandrel or not?

[J.d. Popkes]

Who "...decided" that?

Anyone whose ever really tested it.

 

[AlNyhus]

Anyone whose ever really tested it.

Individual results will vary. Serious competitors actually test this stuff and let the target tell the story.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Richard Jones]

....that bullet hits one side of the lands or then other and careening down the barrel tube from one side to the other.....

Seems like to me if it really did that, the bullet wouldn't even get to the target. What's to keep it from 'wobbling' once it exits the barrel? Wouldn't it continue to 'wobble'? If the barrel doesn't keep it straight, why would anything outside of the barrel help it?

Ready to learn.

 

[Bob3700]

So, the mandrel pushing the donut to the outside of the case is false? If it is false, then you'd be better off reaming the case ID to remove the donut? I have been reloading for a long time and have yet to ream the case ID or turn the case OD but have been thinking I may want to. I must admit it's confusing. It seems the best way to go is to stop using bushing dies.

Disclaimer, I shoot MR n LR prone with sling and the following works for the game I shoot.
My sizing die is a Redding “S” type bushing die. Examining a case after sizing ( under magnification) I can see that there is a band just above the neck/ shoulder junction maybe .050” wide.
Dies that use a bushing that addresses the neck diameter and the shoulder set-backtick at the same time ( Tubb and Neil Jones) size the neck down to the shoulder. They don’t leave this unsized band.

Instead of outside neck turning, I inside neck ream in a FL sizing die ( made the die like the old RCBS ID reaming die). That way, the neck ID is inline with the centerline of the case. This maintains the specific neck ID also removes the donuts that begin to form after each firing.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Individual results will vary. Serious competitors actually test this stuff and let the target tell the story.

Good shootin' -Al

Serious competitors. Yes.

 

[AlNyhus]

Serious competitors. Yes.

So, if someone is a serious experimenter but doesn't compete....the 'one size fits all' statement somehow becomes true?

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Link]

The term Wobble makes me laugh. If it were a .17 slug going down a .50 tube I could buy that. Pick up a fired bullet and there is rifling marks around the complete projectile. It might be a little cattywampus from a uneven start, but nothing I can see or measure.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

So, if someone is a serious experimenter but doesn't compete....the 'one size fits all' statement somehow becomes true?

Good shootin' -Al

Now Al, if you were implying that I’m not a serious competitor it might be more than I could bare.

From what I’ve observed there’s quite a majority of people that just quit caring about bullet runout and concentricity gizmos all end up being paperweights for the most part as long as there’s no major issues.

I’m in that camp, you should do whatever you feel is best.

 

[Pete Wass]

So, the mandrel pushing the donut to the outside of the case is false? If it is false, then you'd be better off reaming the case ID to remove the donut? I have been reloading for a long time and have yet to ream the case ID or turn the case OD but have been thinking I may want to. I must admit it's confusing. It seems the best way to go is to stop using bushing dies.

Wilson, probably others, makes a nice inside case neck reamer that will take away the doughnuts.

 

[AlNyhus]

Now Al, if you were implying that I’m not a serious competitor it might be more than I could bare.

From what I’ve observed there’s quite a majority of people that just quit caring about bullet runout and concentricity gizmos all end up being paperweights for the most part as long as there’s no major issues.

I’m in that camp, you should do whatever you feel is best.

Respectfully, the point was simply about making a blanket statement that covers every situation. Which it doesn't.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[L.Sherm]

the mandrel pushing the donut to the outside of the case is false?

I never said it was completely false, it will push some but not all. It hasn't on the ones I've tried. The other thing I believe is Alex is right you push the donut to the outside and now it impedes on your exact bump your doing because the donut is giving you a false reading. Seating above it cures all the problems anyway.

 

[Tangent]

All I can say is I read about the different methods on here. I picked the neck bushing followed by mandrel method and I get very good groups with very little effort. I don't have the time, money or patience to test everything but I can piggyback on the efforts of those that have. To me that's the smart way to go, and I appreciate everyone sharing their results it has been a great help to me.

 

[D-4297]

Me too.
Doesn’t the freebore and the leade assist in ensuring the bullet engages the rifling squarely?

I'm a retired Tool & Die Guy with a touch of OCD ! I check them once in a while to see if I'm keeping my own standards !

 

[Pete Wass]

I saw a test awhile ago on Button vs mandrill. If I remember right, the author felt the button was better. I don't think it would work so well in cases that have doughnuts though. With a mandrill, one can push the mandrill down to the doughnut but it's a whole lot better with reamed necks.

 

[Bob3700]

I saw a test awhile ago on Button vs mandrill. If I remember right, the author felt the button was better. I don't think it would work so well in cases that have doughnuts though. With a mandrill, one can push the mandrill down to the doughnut but it's a whole lot better with reamed necks.

Amen on the inside reamed necks. Just cut the donut in the bottom of the neck. Pushing it around is an inexact method. How much of the donut is pushed out depends on the level of annealer on the neck.

 

[RabbitSlayer]

Maybe you all have noticed this too, but i have seen bushing only, bushing and mandrel, and bushing with expander ball all recommended by various top level shooters and smiths here and on YouTube.