LR Load development... I'm going to start a dumpster fire

[LVLAaron]

Posting in competition because I want to discuss with competitors, not reloaders.

Confession: I've really only ever loaded 223 and 308 for competitive reasons. I've always used the Satterlee method (Shoot a charge ladder and look for the flat velocity spot) - It's worked very well for me. I can get an initial tune for an FTR rifle without a target. Once I find the flat spot, I do seating depth, and maybe fiddle with a tuner.

Everyone treats this method like it is the antichrist and swears it doesn't work, because Satterlee changed his mind and said so - I'm not here to debate if it works or not.

I want to try something new and maybe learn something. I have a 300 WSM to tune and there aren't a lot of known pet loads out there to work from.


for you LR BR/F-Class guys - When you start fresh, what do you do?

I have a load worked up in quickload and GRT so I have an idea where I want to be.

I have 30 rounds to shoot.

10 rounds of increasing charge weights, loaded 3x.


Do you shoot 10 groups of 3 shots?
Do you shoot strings of 10 increasing charges and look for flat spots on the target?
Do you shake a rain stick?

 

[tvaught]

Please don’t knock the rain stick shake method, it’s a proven method.

 

[TylerFromMS]

Since you're going to be shooting against us in Open, I recommend you listen to the Hornady podcast and follow their methods. This includes using whatever Hornady brass you grab straight out of the box, put in a random charge weight of powder according to the book (because there are no such things as nodes, you silly goose) and use whatever bullets you are going to use anywhere off of the lands, as the seating depth does not matter.

Hope this helps. Don't PM me with questions.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You dont start off tuning. You start off picking components.

 

[Andy Legg]

Watching and Listening….

 

[INTJ]

Here is what I did to start this season in 1K BR at Deep Creek with my 300 SAUM IMP Heavy Gun.

First, I pulled a Krieger 1.45 straight barrel that had 470ish rounds and threw it away because I couldn't get it to shoot last year. Then I chambered 1.45 straight Bartlein than @tom let me buy from @Alex Wheeler.

I did some initial testing at 300 yds that was almost useless. For 300 yds I shoot 5-shot groups. I thought I identified a couple nodes, one at 60.5 grains (that I thought would work best) and one at 62.5. Based on the 300 yd nodes, I loaded up three tests for 1000 yds at the range the day proper to the match. They were:

#1: 58.4, 58.7, 59.0, 59.3
#2: 60.2, 60.4, 60.6, 60.8
#3: 62.0, 62.4, 62.6, 62.8

I have shot this cartridge quite a bit. I know that it likes sorted Berger 200 Hybrids jammed around .021 with my current reamer--that I also got from Alex. Based on the 300 yd test, I thought the #2 1000 yd test would be best. It was the worst. The second best was the #3 test, but it was tad hot.

The #1 test shot the best at 1000 yds. This test was almost an afterthought. I know nodes are typically 2.5 to 3% of the powder charge, so I loaded groups to cover that range--that's why these were in .3 grain increments instead of .2.

Here is what the #1 test looked like:



If I had been able to shoot one more ladder on Friday it would have been 59.0, 59.2, 59.4, 59.6. I really need to see what happens at a little above 59.3. I will do that next match. Please note these are shot round robin, all at the same POI, in a 12 shot string with colored bullet tips.

I shot 62.4 and 59.3 for my groups on Saturday to see which would shoot best. I shot 62.4 first and it was a little over a 6" 10-shot group. 59.3 gave me a 3.95" 10-shot group and I won heavy gun group agg that day. I shot a pair of 5s on Sunday with that load and wound up 4th in group agg.

I think I can tune it a little better, but I don't think I can match Tom's Sunday HG groups from his 300 WSM of 3.5 and 3.3. That was AMAZING!!

 

[R.Morehouse]

So far as choosing components go, I would consider the Berger 210 VLD Hunting. They are at a decent price over at Bullet Central. This bullet was suggested to be some years back by a 1000K record holder at Williansport.....In my gun, he was right.

Regards
Rick

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You dont start off tuning. You start off picking components.

What I mean by this is you dont start out with a powder and bullet combo and go try to tune it. Once you know your cartridge and reamer well you can do that. But at first you should be doing rough work with different bullets, powders and primers. Figure out the components your barrel and reamer likes first. Then tuning is very easy. And I still recommend tuning at 1k if thats the distance your shooting. There are components of a load that will not show up at short or even mid range. You have to take it to 1k for those things to pop up.

 

[LVLAaron]

Since you're going to be shooting against us in Open, I recommend you listen to the Hornady podcast and follow their methods. This includes using whatever Hornady brass you grab straight out of the box, put in a random charge weight of powder according to the book (because there are no such things as nodes, you silly goose) and use whatever bullets you are going to use anywhere off of the lands, as the seating depth does not matter.

Hope this helps. Don't PM me with questions.

I'm glad this is the first thing I read today. Gave me a good laugh and it's gonna be a good one.

 

[quest450]

I’m limited to 300 yd and here’s my load development method, testing two different powders in my 300wsm H4831sc and RL23 yesterday with Berger 215 Hybrids CCI BR2
There seems to be couple of decent groups but it has to be confirmed at 1K next month

A picture is worth a thousand words

 

[Northridge]

I’m limited to 300 yd and here’s my load development method, testing two different powders in my 300wsm H4831sc and RL23 yesterday with Berger 215 Hybrids CCI BR4
There seems to be couple of decent groups but it has to be confirmed at 1K next month

A picture is worth a thousand words

H4895SC ??
I think Mark is so use to writing H4895 that it slipped into his nots for another powder… I feel ya

Shawn Williams




View attachment 1646564

 

[quest450]

Lol good catch Shawn.....I'm so used to BRA, I fixed the BR4 mistake but the powder flew right over my head

H 4831 sc

 

[Northridge]

As others have stated above pick some baseline components, then if cartridge is foreign to me I’ll build some single shot pressure ladders to one just get a feel of zones of a higher degree of “potential “ and document what my usable pressure ceiling may be… I’m looking for general mannerisms at this time …. Is combo slow to build pressure, how is the “travel” from bottom to top, is it a vertical climber or does grouping casually migrate in a left or right manner as it trends ups, is it more vulnerable to leaving the target in a longer string etc. over time even in shorter shot studies there will be tendency’s that we see time and time again… then each outing is evaluated Pryor to building a finer next session… Naturally I’m just “stacking potential “ while attempting a competitive zone as quickly as possible all the while putting risk into attempts on actual match targets vs session after session of “what if” I don’t think there really is a wrong answer just don’t be afraid to fuxxx some shit up it ok it’s just a “game” enjoy the ride..

Shawn Williams

 

[LVLAaron]

Good advice from everyone. I'm not trying to win any matches with this one, I just needed to get out of the shop and on the range with something new and fun. I have faith in the 215's for my needs. I've always got a ton of 200's and 4350.

 

[Ranger188]

I’m limited to 300 yd and here’s my load development method, testing two different powders in my 300wsm H4831sc and RL23 yesterday with Berger 215 Hybrids CCI BR2
There seems to be couple of decent groups but it has to be confirmed at 1K next month

A picture is worth a thousand words



View attachment 1646569

Are you jumping or jamming those 215?

 

[LVLAaron]

Are you jumping or jamming those 215?

Haven't loaded them yet. I usually start 10 off for powder testing

 

[quest450]

Are you jumping or jamming those 215?

jumping 10 for now, I'll play with seating depth after I find my powder charge

 

[Bc'z]

Haven't loaded them yet. I usually start 10 off for powder testing

I'd start with seating, then tune powder.
Try it, you can thank me later

 

[quest450]

I'd start with seating, then tune powder.
Try it, you can thank me later

Interesting concept I've never tried it, how do you pick the starting powder charge......velocity that particular cartridge is known to shoot well ??

 

[Bc'z]

Interesting concept I've never tried it, how do you pick the starting powder charge......velocity that particular cartridge is known to shoot well ??

Mark I start midway between minimum and max of listed load data.
Sometimes I look at what bullet and powder others are shooting and extrapolate a safe starting point.
I'll shoot this @200 eliminating the noise of 100 but not dealing with as much environmental condition youd see @300.
Starting at .020 ITL, I use 2 shots to do this test, if 2 ain't touching 3 ain't getting any better. Seat .003 deeper repeat.
I'll shoot this in a horizontal format with individual aiming points.
This is a picture I've posted before
6br Bart's 105 hammer N540
Out of the gate 2 were touching, 2 clicks rt and shot 2 more to confirm, I then pushed .002 deeper... 1hole!! I pushed it .002 deeper and it started opening up so I backed up to the 1 hole depth and preceeded to powder tuning @300 with colored bullets.