looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds. **update and range report**

[Road_Clam]

My plan come next spring is to take an instructional class that takes you out to 1000 yards. The Sig academy i'm taking allows shooters to hand load thier own ammo. Currently I am shooting well out to 600 yards. My first consideration is choosing a bullet, then developing a load to stay supersonic to 1000. My R700 Varmint has a 1-12" 26" heavy barrel. I did a quick load test using 155 Lapua Scenars , and 175 SMK's . The 155's shot the best. My max load was 45.2 gr of Varget which yielded an avg velocity of 2906 fps and no excessive overpressure signs with the casings. Per my ballistics I will stay supersonic and at 1000 (approx 1260 fps @ 1000 ft). I also tested the 175's, my max load was 44 gr. of Varget and I was measuring and avg velocity of 2724 , which puts me at about 1240 fps @ 1000 yds. The 155's grouped slighty tighter (about .8 MOA) vs the 175's which Shot about 1.06 MOA . There was some random wind gusts which potentially pushed my shots, but these were averaged out. I'm leaning towards persuing more testing with the 155's as historically the lighter 155's perform better from my 1-12 barrel. The experienced shooters recommend the 175's for the reason of better wind resistance. I'm a newer precision shooter and would like your feedback on what bullet you would choose given my circumstances and initial data. Thanks !

Rich K.

 

[ShootDots]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

There is a fellow on this site "QuiggyB" (real name is Bryan Schneider) who shoots F-T/R.. He is a High Master and I have seen him shoot right with and even surpass High Masters in F-Open. Look at his scores at the latest TSRA Mid-Range Championship posting on here. He is an EXCELLENT reloader and has done A LOT with a 308Win. I would "P.M." him with your desire and I can guarantee you he will help you in any way he can..

 

[nastynatesfish]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Also a member by name warren dean on here. He is a team savage shooter. He runs 185 juggernauts. I shot 175 smk with my savage ftr rifle using imr4007sc and I was running almost 2900 out of the 30" barrel and they shot very well.

 

[watercam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I am an active Palma/Long Range competitor. The .308 shooters in the long rang game are using 30-32" barrels to stay super sonic to 1000 yds. with 155s. With your 26" barrel you will be better served with 175 gr. or heavier bullets. There is nothing wrong with the 175 SMKs (they are the current military long range sniper bullet). Play with seating depth to tune the load to your rifle. In .005" increments start with the bullets just touching the lands and shoot five shot groups out to .040" off the lands. Also consider trying H4350 for a bit more velocity if it is accurate in your gun.
Also consider attending a long range competitive event and let folks know you are there to learn. Any and all will be glad to offer advise and help to get you started.
Best of luck and have fun!

 

[jr600yd]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Since your going to 1K you need the heaviest bullet your barrel can handle. I guess your 1/12 won't accurately handle bullets over 190 grs. Don't discount the Sierra 190 SMK. Berger 185's are an excellent choice. The heavier the bullet the less wind drift you'll encounter. The 155 class bullet is well designed and performs well in its class but the higher the bullet BC the better. There are some old standby powders that are still used today Hodgdon and IMR-4895, 4064, 4350 to name just a few.

 

[4xforfun]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I shoot the 200 Berger Hybrid in a 1-12 300 WSM. VERY, VERY accurate.

I would use the heaviest bullet I could keep stable!!!

 

[Joe R]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

ShootDots said:
There is a fellow on this site "QuiggyB" (real name is Bryan Schneider) who shoots F-T/R.. He is a High Master and I have seen him shoot right with and even surpass High Masters in F-Open. Look at his scores at the latest TSRA Mid-Range Championship posting on here. He is an EXCELLENT reloader and has done A LOT with a 308Win. I would "P.M." him with your desire and I can guarantee you he will help you in any way he can..

Do this.

 

[CatShooter]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

My first consideration is choosing a bullet, then developing a load to stay supersonic to 1000.
Rich K.

I would not put much worry in staying supersonic. Pick the most accurate bullet you can find and go with it.

There is no real evidence that there is any problems when a bullet goes sub. A lot of people believe it, and I am sure that at least 10 people will say I am wrong - but where are the targets and tests that show it.

When a bullet slows to ~1085 fps, and below, nothing happens to it that has any effect on accuracy. All the "Turbulence" is behind the bullet, not in front, so there is nothing to go through.... and there are guys shooting 30 cals at twice+ that distance, with no problems.

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I would not put much worry in staying supersonic. Pick the most accurate bullet you can find and go with it.

Then that would be my 168 SMK's. (yet the generall concensus is the 168's have a bad rep of keyholing going past 600 yds.) I've shot nothing but 168's in all my 600 yd outings and had surperb accuracy and consistancy, so I have many factors to consider... at least I have all winter to test and find the ideal load.

 

[Joe R]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

yet the generall concensus is the 168's have a bad rep of keyholing going past 600 yds

It is not a rep, it is a fact even here in Houston where it is warmer. At 1k the 168MK will keyhole and get you disqualified. The one time that a shooter did not get DQ it was because the radio was malfunctioning and the pits couldn't tell the firing line of it. After the pit change he was DQ.

I have never heard of an explanation of why the 168 do that. The 155s and 175 don't have that problem. Maybe someone here can educate us?

 

[CatShooter]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I would not put much worry in staying supersonic. Pick the most accurate bullet you can find and go with it.

Then that would be my 168 SMK's. (yet the generall concensus is the 168's have a bad rep of keyholing going past 600 yds.) I've shot nothing but 168's in all my 600 yd outings and had surperb accuracy and consistancy, so I have many factors to consider... at least I have all winter to test and find the ideal load.

Yes, they do - but keyholing does not prove a theory, it just shows a problem, not yet defined...

An example of "Keyholing"... (first photo is two keyholed over each other, forming an "X")

Bullet was a quality 50gr softpoint in a 14" twist benchrest grade rifle, which can shoot in the 1's. Velocity on the target was ~3,000 ps.

So, there is nothing about trans-sonic that tumbling proves - there are a lot of reasons that bullets tumble.

 

[CatShooter]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

yet the generall concensus is the 168's have a bad rep of keyholing going past 600 yds

It is not a rep, it is a fact even here in Houston where it is warmer. At 1k the 168MK will keyhole and get you disqualified. The one time that a shooter did not get DQ it was because the radio was malfunctioning and the pits couldn't tell the firing line of it. After the pit change he was DQ.

I have never heard of an explanation of why the 168 do that. The 155s and 175 don't have that problem. Maybe someone here can educate us?

I don't know for sure - I wound up with 3,000 of them a long time ago, and finely loaded them up in Fed GMM Nickle plate and sold them to a local range (who gobbled them up).

It is a short little toad of a bullet, with a tiny 13° boat tail, which might be the problem - the 168 SMK is the last large calibre bullet that Sierra designed, to have a short 13° boat tail... after that design, they went to the long 9° boat tail, and I have not heard of tumbling from any of them.

I "think" the 168 is an aerodynamic pig!

 

[Joe R]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

CatShooter said:
It is a short little toad of a bullet, with a tiny 13° boat tail, which might be the problem - the 168 SMK is the last large calibre bullet that Sierra designed, to have a short 13° boat tail... after that design, they went to the long 9° boat tail, and I have not heard of tumbling from any of them.

I "think" the 168 is an aerodynamic pig!

Since you've forgotten more about ballistic than I will learn in the rest of my natural life, I thank you for educating me.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[Coolhand]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I compete in Fullbore TR, 300-1000 yards. I have on hand the following projectiles , Sierra 155 2155 & 2156, Berger 155.5 FBT & 155 Hybrids, Nosler 155 CC. I use the same components for all these projectiles.
RWS Primers, Lapua Cases and 45.5 grains of VARGET. The only thing that varies with my loads, is the projectile & seating depth.
Current barrel is a 1:12 30" Schneider.

The only variation with all these projectiles is the elevation. For example a Nosler 155 CC & Sierra 155 2155, need 29-30 minutes and the 155.5 & 155 Bergers require an average of 25 minutes at 1000 yards. Sorry I don't have any velocity figures but all these projectiles perform well.

If you want to see how much you can stretch the limits of the .308 check out the people shooting British Match rifle , shot prone starting from 1000 to 1200 yards. http://www.matchrifle.org/About_Match_Rifle.htm

regards
Mike.

 

[boltman223]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

With what everyone has Said i get the impression that the168 smk's will not make it to 1000 without tumbling. I don't doubt that there has been some issues with them. I have read this is pretty common on this Site and many other places. I don't believe it is set in stone and thought it should be mentioned for that sake.

One of my fellow competitors has shot the 168's at 1000 before, they made it there without an issue and fairly accurate (lack of some load development I believe). We were at about 1200 ft elevation and it was about 85 degrees.

It might be hard with a 26" barrel but, Wouldnt some of the issues be solved if the bullet stated out a little faster?

 

[4xforfun]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I watched and HEARD a compeditor using 168 SMK's in a 308 go subsonic. He rarly hit the target, and when he did it was a key hole. You could actually hear the bullet go subsonic at around 900 yards. It always sounded like he hit way short, but the bullet would pass overhead...mayby hit the target, maybe not, but would always make a splash on or around the impact area.....somewhere. This lasted for at least 6 matches...IBS 1000 yard at Harris in 2008? When he FINALLY capitulated and tryed what everyone was telling him to try he was golden for the rest of the season. That bullet was, if I am not mistaken, the Berger 210 VLD.

This just seems to stick in my mind because of the sound of the bullet actually going subsonic WAY before the target and me radeioinging the line that the hit was short and then haveing to recant after we see the keyhole!!

 

[MNFinn]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

my twist is 1-11, but I get really good results with the 155 SMK palma out of my 26in bbl using IMR4895.....2975fps.

one Note, I have not taken this out to 1k, but they will stay above 1300fps out to 1k, if my ballistics program is correct....

 

[DR1586]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

The 168 SMK was designed for 300M competition not for long range. It is a very accurate bullet and accounted for some of my leg points. But it is not a 1000yd bullet by any means. Has it been used, yes. Did one guy that used to shoot, have a buddy who's cousin's friend once shot a 200-10x with 168s at 1000, that goes along with every other story you hear from guys that have been sharp shooters for 35 years. Do yourself a favor and look at the 175-190gr class bullets. If you plan to run these at mag length, the 175s are a great choice. You can certainly keep them supersonic at 1000, and I've always found them easy to get to shoot. The 155's are great bullets but you have to run them fast enough to get them to perform. That might prove difficult with the 26" barrel. If it were me, I'd be using the 175s and varget, RL15, 4895, 4064, etc. I think that is your best bet.

 

[eab7-a]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

I am not a pro, but i do have a rifle just like yours. I have shot it in f/tr for about a year. My best 1000yd load to this date is[IMR 4064 44.5grs,win primer,win brass,berger 185bthp, with an oal of 2.525. Can't speak for anyone else, but it shoots great in my rifle. It's my wind reading skills that are in question. Hope this helps.

 

[Road_Clam]

Re: looking to develop a .308 load for 1000 yds.

Thanks everyone for all the expertise insight. Seems the most logical step foreward is develop the 175 SMK load in my situation with my specific rifle. I also bought 400 175 Nosler CC's and maybe give them a try as comparative data. I also have a few hundred 178 AMaxes. So lots of choices to try. I'll keep everyone up to date as I start testing.