Looking for Input on Kelbly 25 MOA Rings

[rkittine]

Want to easily change one of my rifles from shooting 100 / 200 yards and than to 600/1000 yards without changing bases, cranking the scopes way out from mid range or using hold over.

So, I purchased a set of Kelbly 25 MOA 30MM Rings and a second scope for the 6.5x47L Rifle I want to do this with.

My thought is to have one scope (the current set up) with regular 0 MOA rings and 0 MOA bases and then take that off and slip on the second scope with the 25 MOA rings on the same bases. Other than the required spacing to get 25 MOA (5.9 Inches) the instructions are not that explicit and after two calls to Kelby, I am not sure how I should really go about setting up the mount. Hence I am looking for input from anyone that might have done this.

My cell number is: 631-374-9652

E-mail is: Rkittine@aol.com

Thanks, Bob

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Well, you have the exact spacing that is required to get the 25MOA cant, what else do you need to know?

 

[rkittine]

After looking at the way the rings are made, I understand that this will not work unless I bed them. The front base is lower than the rear base. That makes sense. The inside of both rings though are parallel to the action / bases and not canted, so when you put the scope in, you have contact at the front of each ring, but not at the back. If the scope was going to stay on the rifle, that would work fine, but when you unscrew the rings from the bases, the scope can find parallel equilibrium with the rings and becomes lose, so the change over is not straightforward and easy.

I thought that may the bottom of the rings where machined to allow the rings to tilt ever so slightly to allow the scope to fully seat along the full inside of each ring like a normal straight installation does, but that is not the case.

So I am thinking I might need to remove the Davidson type Dovetail (Borden Mfg.) off my Borden Action and put on a 0 MOA Rail or Weaver type bases and then use regular rings for my 100/200 yard set up and a set of Burris Signature Zee XTR rings and offset inserts on the 800/1000 yard set up.

Any other thoughts how I could do this without having to change the bases each time I change over?

Thanks, Bob

 

[rkittine]

After looking at the way the rings are made, I understand that this will not work unless I bed them. The front base is lower than the rear base. That makes sense. The inside of both rings though are parallel to the action / bases and not canted, so when you put the scope in, you have contact at the front of each ring, but not at the back. If the scope was going to stay on the rifle, that would work fine, but when you unscrew the rings from the bases, the scope can find parallel equilibrium with the rings and becomes lose, so the change over is not straightforward and easy.

I thought that may the bottom of the rings where machined to allow the rings to tilt ever so slightly to allow the scope to fully seat along the full inside of each ring like a normal straight installation does, but that is not the case.

So I am thinking I might need to remove the Davidson type Dovetail (Borden Mfg.) off my Borden Action and put on a 0 MOA Rail or Weaver type bases and then use regular rings for my 100/200 yard set up and a set of Burris Signature Zee XTR rings and offset inserts on the 800/1000 yard set up.

Any other thoughts how I could do this without having to change the bases each time I change over?

Thanks, Bob

P.S. - Kelbly has been great about this and when they understood what I was trying to do, we discussed the pitfalls and they told me to send them back for a refund. Very nice to do business with.

 

[savagedasher]

I put them on my dasher worked fine for 1000 yards . 100 yards they were to much I lacked 4" of scope adjustments make 100 .
Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

I would think the base should allow the rings to be angled like the plane of the base. Mine make contact from front to rear. If they are really that bad something must be wrong. That sounds like too much to even lap the rings. Matt

 

[rkittine]

I thought maybe the way to do it was to install the scope in the rings first (after aligning and leveling) and then tighten them on the bases, but Kelbly recommends 45 Inch Pounds of Torgue to mount the rings to the bases and only 12 for the rings themselves. Since I was also told by them that it did not matter which way the rings were turned, as long as the one marked REAR was in the back and the unmarked one in the front, there could NOT be any angle built into the ring or in one direction it would angle one way and in the other direction it would angle the other way. The set up will for sure work (very small actual tilt) if installed and left on the rifle, but it is the taking off and switching scopes on a regular basis, that causes the problem with returning to approximate zero. Here is the exaggerated drawing that I sent to Kelbly that they concurred with. They would be normally fine, but just not for what I had envisioned them to do for me. I could try to Lap in the internal offset in the rings or bed the scope, but I was trying not to do that.

I have other Kelbly Rings on other rifles (standard matched rings) and I love them. They have been great to work with.

Bob

 

[dkhunt14]

Take a caliper and measure the front and rear of the ring. To have minutes in they should be taller on one side. My first response was to a tapered base and not a ring. On my Stillers they are really shorter on one side. Matt

 

[Dos XX]

I would think the hole for the scope tube would be at an angle? They would have to be the exact, correct distance apart or the angle would change.

I see Matt beat me to it.

 

[ronemus]

I'd recommend using Burris Signature rings; they use plastic inserts with spherical surfaces on the insert and the inside of the rings. The 30 mm rings come with 2 pairs of inserts: 0 (no offset) and 10 (0.010" offset). This allows you to make the rear 0.010" high and the front 0.010" low. You can also apply the offset sideways to compensate for misaligned bases. The clamping force of the rings keeps the adjustment from changing - I've had them on a rifle for a decade, taking the scope off and reinstalling at least a hundred times with no change in POI; one a .223 spacegun with backward/forward AR recoil, and the other a .284 bolt gun..

 

[rkittine]

Thanks for all the responses. To answering a few, I checked the height of each ring from the bearing surface of the ring on the base to the bottom of the ring and the dimension is the same on each end, so no taper as my drawing depicts. One of course is lower than the other.

I have Burris Signature Zee Rings on a number of my other long range rifles. The New Ones come with 6 inserts in the set. I would have gone that route except Burris does not make them for Davidson Type Dovetail Bases. So I will have to change bases and have both scopes utilizing new rings. Will use Burris for both in order to also eliminate the chance of ring marks. I actually have a couple of brand new extra sets that I can fool with.

Bob

 

[dkhunt14]

I would CALL Kelby and ask them. I would tell them the distance is the same. I wouldn't want my scope riding on a leading edge. Maybe they made a mistake. I would think they should taper for full contact. Matt

 

[rkittine]

I have talked to Kelbly at least 4 times as well as E-mailed back and forth. Unfortunately this is a compromise set up. that will not work for what I am trying to do and they have been very responsive and are taking the rings back. I should have asked more questions before I ordered them. I would imagine with a lot of time and lapping compound, I could rework them to do what I want, but right now I am looking for an easier solution. The other alternative would be to bed the scope, but I have never done that before and would probably ruin the rings and the scope.

Bob