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Long range load development at 100 yards.

Just got back from the range to confirm my load (52.2gr. 4350). I also tried some lighter loads in .2gr. increments. Looks like it has good company for warmer weather starting at 51.6gr.
Looks like 51.8 is closer to the center of your node. I would try a seating test at that powder charge to see what groups would look like. 52.2 looks to show some vertical stringing and could be on the high side of the node.
 
i already posted this but figured i'd post it here
using Erik's load testing info
Well...i kinda did......or tried to
Found a Barrell Time Load for SW Match Powder 80gr EDLMs and my LC11 brass on QuickLoad...
loaded that load and .12gr. below and over
Shot over my Chrono to find the lowest ES of which i found single digit ES load
Then i took my original seating depth and reduced by .003 and .006 and elongated by the same and got a one hole 3 shoot group at 100 yards. now to test at 600..
combustion/ES harmonics/seating depth external ballistics/Berger Bullets sorry i have Hornady ELDMs
 

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i already posted this but figured i'd post it here
using Erik's load testing info
Well...i kinda did......or tried to
Found a Barrell Time Load for SW Match Powder 80gr EDLMs and my LC11 brass on QuickLoad...
loaded that load and .12gr. below and over
Shot over my Chrono to find the lowest ES of which i found single digit ES load
Then i took my original seating depth and reduced by .003 and .006 and elongated by the same and got a one hole 3 shoot group at 100 yards. now to test at 600..
combustion/ES harmonics/seating depth external ballistics/Berger Bullets sorry i have Hornady ELDMs
If you’re planning on 2.477 you better check “touch” just about every 100 rds That’s living on the edge. 2.474 looked similar POI. 2.480-2.483 looked terrible. Walking razors edge there. Just my opinion
 
I appreciate your concern, but for my barrel setup i'm at least 0.013 off the lands. i've shot 2.490 put of my barrel with no issue previously FWIW 2.074 and 2.477 were only 3 shot groups and 2.480, 2.483 and 2.486 were 5 shot groups
 
If you get a group just under 1/2" at 100 yds and it shoots 2 inches at 300 what do you do to fine tune it at the 300 yd range ?
This is with a Tikka T3x 223 varmint rifle.
 
I used to do the seating depth at 300 yards, but now I do it all at 100 yards since I have found that if it shoots well at 100, it will shoot at 300.
Wise words.
IIRC, Virgil King said the same about shooting in the warehouse back in 93.
 
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Just got back from the range to confirm my load (52.2gr. 4350). I also tried some lighter loads in .2gr. increments. Looks like it has good company for warmer weather starting at 51.6gr.
Follow up: Went with 51.8 grains of H4350 and here is the seating depth development.
Liking .015" and .035" Out of lands. While 35 Out has an aberrant SD/ES due to 1-2853 fps shot, it stayed in the group and has the same-ish Average fps as 15 Out.
 

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I would say that 0.015" is the place you want to be. If the SD and SE are correct, there is no vertical deviation. I would look no further.
 
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Follow up: Went with 51.8 grains of H4350 and here is the seating depth development.
Liking .015" and .035" Out of lands. While 35 Out has an aberrant SD/ES due to 1-2853 fps shot, it stayed in the group and has the same-ish Average fps as 15 Out.
And here is the final load development. I will do a head to head with .015" and .018 at 1,000 yards for a Final². The shotMarker pic is 15 shots at 1,000 yards with .015" out, switching winds and no flags, just watching the mirage. I put .25moa up after the '9' and went to town.
 

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And here is the final load development. I will do a head to head with .015" and .018 at 1,000 yards for a Final². The shotMarker pic is 15 shots at 1,000 yards with .015" out, switching winds and no flags, just watching the mirage. I put .25moa up after the '9' and went to town.
Just realized I never gave the salient details. .284 Win., 30"-1in 8.5 Brux, CMI F1 stock Leatherneck Red, March 48x52 Fixed High Master, Barnard P Action/trigger (@4oz.,single stage), Blake tuner.
 

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Final²...Well, no contest. .015" is the winner. 17 of 20 are X ring waterline. The 9 was was a missed fishtail.
"3, in the corner pocket!"
 

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I found this target, and I think it's a perfect example of how some people might choose the wrong load because they fell in love with a group without reading the groups properly. This target was shot with my 6.5x47 Lapua and 139 gr. Lapua Scenars with VV N550 powder.

At plain sight, 38.5 gr. appears to be the best group, but if you look at the groups next to it they don't hit the target on the same place vertically in relation to the bull's eye. The load is not stable and this load would cause problems when moving further out because it is not inside the accuracy node.

However, loads 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5 are vertically in the same place in relation to the bull's eye. This is the accuracy node for powder charge, my next step would be to load 40.0 gr. and adjust seating depth and bring the group in and done, I now have a load that would shoot out to 1,000 yards. Also, when the groups line up vertically, the speed also varies very little over the chronograph for the loads that line up on target, it appears that the speed flat lines for a while before it starts to jump up again, this is where you want to be.

Update: 9/17/14
Some of you have asked for more detailed instructions on how I do this. Here they are:
1. Find Jam by seating a bullet long on a dummy piece of brass (no primer nor powder) and apply die wax to the bullet ogive and record it's base to ogive length.
2. Chamber the round and close the bolt.
3. Snap the bolt open and measure the base to ogive measurement. If it is shorter than previous measurement, this is your jam. Do it a few times with different cases to make sure.
4. Load a known powder/primer/bullet combination. I load 4 of each powder charge in 0.5 gr. increments and seat bullets at jam - .020". I use one shot of each to get barrel fouled up and also keep an eye for max pressure at the same time. You can also use these rounds to break in a barrel if you are inclined to. If I encounter pressure on the hotter rounds, I will not shoot groups with the other loaded rounds and will pull bullets when I get back home. Do not shoot in round robin style because position and natural point of aim will be compromised.
5. Shoot 3 shot groups starting from lowest to highest. All groups are shot over a chronograph.
6. Examine target and find the place where consecutive groups line up vertically and ES is the lowest and speed increases the least from one group to the next.
7. Load to the middle of the powder node and do a seating depth test.
8. Load 3 shot groups starting from Jam - 0.005" all the way out to Jam - .040" in .003" increments.
9. When you find the seating depth test that shoots the best, load towards the longest side of the node to allow more room for throat erosion.
10. Final step is to load the new seating depth and load 5 shot groups in 0.1 gr. increments 0.5 gr. on each side of node (if pressure limits are not reached). This will cover an entire grain of powder and you will be able to pinpoint where the powder node starts and ends. In the summer, load towards the low end of the node, and do the opposite in the winter.

HAPPY SHOOTING!

Update 3/29/15

A step I have added lately to my process is to do the powder charge test with multiple primers to see which one shows best potential as well as more consistent chronograph numbers. The primers that performs best during the powder charge testing is the one that I will do the seating depth testing with.

If you find this method helpful in any way, think about making a donation to this great site.
Thank you.




index.php
I found this target, and I think it's a perfect example of how some people might choose the wrong load because they fell in love with a group without reading the groups properly. This target was shot with my 6.5x47 Lapua and 139 gr. Lapua Scenars with VV N550 powder.

At plain sight, 38.5 gr. appears to be the best group, but if you look at the groups next to it they don't hit the target on the same place vertically in relation to the bull's eye. The load is not stable and this load would cause problems when moving further out because it is not inside the accuracy node.

However, loads 39.5, 40.0, and 40.5 are vertically in the same place in relation to the bull's eye. This is the accuracy node for powder charge, my next step would be to load 40.0 gr. and adjust seating depth and bring the group in and done, I now have a load that would shoot out to 1,000 yards. Also, when the groups line up vertically, the speed also varies very little over the chronograph for the loads that line up on target, it appears that the speed flat lines for a while before it starts to jump up again, this is where you want to be.

Update: 9/17/14
Some of you have asked for more detailed instructions on how I do this. Here they are:
1. Find Jam by seating a bullet long on a dummy piece of brass (no primer nor powder) and apply die wax to the bullet ogive and record it's base to ogive length.
2. Chamber the round and close the bolt.
3. Snap the bolt open and measure the base to ogive measurement. If it is shorter than previous measurement, this is your jam. Do it a few times with different cases to make sure.
4. Load a known powder/primer/bullet combination. I load 4 of each powder charge in 0.5 gr. increments and seat bullets at jam - .020". I use one shot of each to get barrel fouled up and also keep an eye for max pressure at the same time. You can also use these rounds to break in a barrel if you are inclined to. If I encounter pressure on the hotter rounds, I will not shoot groups with the other loaded rounds and will pull bullets when I get back home. Do not shoot in round robin style because position and natural point of aim will be compromised.
5. Shoot 3 shot groups starting from lowest to highest. All groups are shot over a chronograph.
6. Examine target and find the place where consecutive groups line up vertically and ES is the lowest and speed increases the least from one group to the next.
7. Load to the middle of the powder node and do a seating depth test.
8. Load 3 shot groups starting from Jam - 0.005" all the way out to Jam - .040" in .003" increments.
9. When you find the seating depth test that shoots the best, load towards the longest side of the node to allow more room for throat erosion.
10. Final step is to load the new seating depth and load 5 shot groups in 0.1 gr. increments 0.5 gr. on each side of node (if pressure limits are not reached). This will cover an entire grain of powder and you will be able to pinpoint where the powder node starts and ends. In the summer, load towards the low end of the node, and do the opposite in the winter.

HAPPY SHOOTING!

Update 3/29/15

A step I have added lately to my process is to do the powder charge test with multiple primers to see which one shows best potential as well as more consistent chronograph numbers. The primers that performs best during the powder charge testing is the one that I will do the seating depth testing with.

If you find this method helpful in any way, think about making a donation to this great site.
Thank you.




index.php
01C6574B-B8DF-4FD6-8576-7075A4DA4211.jpegA80E1F12-C2E3-4831-BA1F-EC6C73C911A7.jpeg
 
These were shot today with a new Bra, Brass was fire formed with 2 firings and these are 1st load development attempts. Any input appreciated....
 
Final²...Well, no contest. .015" is the winner. 17 of 20 are X ring waterline. The 9 was was a missed fishtail.
"3, in the corner pocket!"
Here is a video of a string I shot with this load on Thursday, Jan. 7.
and below is the ShotMarker screenshot. (Shot 1 was me fighting a clean barrel)
961F0666-2145-4E92-9EE0-5B948E3A4DE6_1_201_a.jpeg
 

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