Long Range Action?

[NickB1075]

I am looking to start a long range rifle build. It will most likely be more Palma (Iron Sight) based. I am looking for some information on actions. I can't decide on an action for this rifle. I have spoken to a few smiths that have told me the Barnard is the way to go for a prone rifle. I just don't understand why an action for say f-Class is not considered a top choice for a prone rifle.

Any information or thoughts on an action for this rifle would be great.

Thanks
Nick

 

[savageshooter86]

I know a very well respected, National shooter who uses a W70 based action and does very very well with it. All preference and the $$$ you want to put into a rifle.

 

[Hombre0321]

Barnards are very good actions, however why it is "THE" choice of anyone is most likely a personal choice thing. Before you jump on the Barnard band wagon you may want to check on the availability of one. I checked about a month or so and was told by the importer that there were none in this country but they would be happy to add me to there list. He had no idea how long the list was or when they may become available.

Any of the good custom actions will work just great. I have an Eliseo tube gun and it has a Defiance action and it performs very well for a Sling Rifle. I have seen Sling and Palma rifles built on just about any action you would care to mention.

RS

 

[clowdis]

If I had to start all over again I would start with Barnards. Headspace dimensions are the most consistently accurate of any action that I have worked on. Every action within .002! Also by the time you figure in cost of action and trigger the Barnard is right there. One reason F-class shooters may favor other actions is the Barnard trigger is a two stage and bench/F shooters mostly prefer a light single stage trigger. But, if you're shooting prone I'd seriously consider the Barnard.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Nick,

The Barnard is a great action and it is cost-effective compared to just about anything. In the right hands, it has the capability to win any Palma match anywhere.

I see no advantage to a multi-lug action, particularly since nobody uses "issue ammo" anymore. That was the claim to fame for the Swings, Paramounts, Quadlocks, Barnards, etc. It was felt that 3 or 4 lug actions would support the crooked heads of issue ammo better on ignition and allow it to shoot straighter. That sure sounds good, but some darned fine scores were turned in with issue ammo and rifles having 2-lug actions.

For ammo that you will undoubtedly be rolling yourself, this isn't a factor.

A question that you may want to ask yourself is whether or not you intend to keep the rifle shouldered through the entire match and keeping your scope tight to glass with the non-shooting eye. Those that do this have a decided advantage because they can break the shot far quicker after coming off the scope. If so and you have short arms, it may be advantageous to have an easy-opening 2-lug action so you do not break position. Where will the trigger be in relation to the load port? A trigger set well back is not favored under that scenario because the loading port is so far forward. Get the drift?

There's actually more to it than "which action is best" and it should be "which action is best for my shooting style".

 

[FroggyOne2]

There's actually more to it than "which action is best" and it should be "which action is best for my shooting style".

I believe that this is good advice.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Funny,

I called Bruce at MT Guns about a month ago and had an action within 3 weeks. I'm going to build an F-open rifle off of it. There are a lot of very successful F-open shooters using the Barnard.

As for the other things addressed in this thread:

Trigger:
Barnard sells an adaptor so you can use a Jewel if you want. That is not necessary though. The two-stage trigger can be set up as a single stage - just have to read the instructions that come with it. It isn't a two ounce trigger - mine is running around 6 at the minimum.

Opening force:
I'm a touch confused about that comment. I know it is only a 60 degree bolt throw to open (easier in my eyes), but it doesn't open any harder than any other custom action I've handled.

If I were going to build a Palma rifle, I'd start with the chassis and work out from there. Personally, I'd probably use one of the made-for-a-tube gun domestic actions. That's just a matter of personal preference, body type (I have long arms), and shooting style.

 

[TonyR]

There are so many Barnards at the top levels of F-Open that I would have a hard time listing them all, both left hand and right hand shooters. Some talk about the cost savings of the supplied trigger but I suspect that they may see some accuracy advantages in a 3-lug action. You might get some interesting responses if you asked that question here as well. I know of a number of top-level F-Open shooters using 3-lug BATs with improved accuracy in mind.
I personally like the big BAT M OCTPIC because I like the extra-large barrel tenon and the one-piece receiver with built-in scope rail and recoil lug. I think that design has its own advantages as well. It does take some fiddling with the other components of the rifle to make weight because the action is so heavy but I am very satisfied with my choice.

 

[Steve Blair]

I'm with Tony on this one. Discipline aside, there is no way to fault choosing a Barnard. They are well proven in both sling and F-Class. My F-Open rifles use BAT 3-lug actions in OCTPIC configuration for the same reasons Tony cites. The integral rail is just one less thing to go wrong. The same disclaimer applies, too. My 3LL147OCTPIC actions weigh 55 ounces and will not make weight with every combination of scope, barrel and stock.

 

[PRECISIONWELDING01]

Prone action you will not go wrong with a barnard plus the trigger is a bonus .

 

[mgx1138]

I just built up a dedicated prone rifle for long range (iron sights); 6.5x284. I went through the "which action" question... and ended up with a Barnard. The action is slick and beautiful and the trigger is simply excellent. There's a good reason that there are so many of them on the firing line; they are hard to beat at any price.

 

[FroggyOne2]

I have two of them, wouldn't have any other action, but I do have a very fine Remington as well.

 

[NickB1075]

Thank you all for the responses. I never doubted that the Barnard was an excelent choice. I just didn't understand why their is no US actions with such a following in the prone market. Is it a shorter action? Different port/trigger location?

I have been shooting Service Rifle XTC FOR ABOUT 10 years now and I do like to keep the rifle in my shoulder for slow fire relays. So having a tight position is definitely in my consideration.

I notice that their is tube stock made for the Barnard actions. How are these set ups? Are they competitive? I like the idea of it being similar to my AR platform.

I was also looking at the Kelblys Panda Bigbore. What are opinions on this action? I do know that you have to use a more traditional stock.

Thanks
Nick

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Nick,

I ran a pair of Big Bore Panda's when I was really into the game. I liked the integral Redfield mount and more importantly, it was offered at the time in a configuration to mount a very clean Anschutz trigger that allowed me to make the 1.5Kg minimum weight. With 70 vision and severe astigmatism in my non-shooting eye, I could not keep the rifle in my shoulder. But, the action was butter smooth to operate and I could keep the rifle shouldered under a coach. Never the slightest issue was encountered with either action over 5 seasons.

The issue for the Panda is getting one. If Bruno's doesn't have one you are looking at a substantial lead time. When I got mine the wait was nearly a year.

Just acquired a Panda F-Class and am reasonably certain that it will serve my purpose. It's hard to go away from a brand that has worked for me.

All of that said, my number one rifle was based on a trued Rem Sportsman 78 action. Shot me more high-X cleans at 600-1000 than anything...so go figure

 

[FroggyOne2]

Gary Eliseo's stocks are awesome! I have had several of them from all three generations. Each new addition is an improved version of the previous.

 

[Steve Blair]

Gary Eliseo's stocks are awesome! I have had several of them from all three generations. Each new addition is an improved version of the previous.

[br]
+1 Although it now hurts too much for me in the sling, I do have a long action Eliseo RTM. IMO, it is the best contemporary choice for sling shooting. And, a Barnard is a fine choice in Gary's chassis.

 

[M14AMU]

RPA Quadlock or Paramount!

http://yarchive.net/gun/rifle/paramount_action.html

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Good gravy...people quit wearing white shoes and white hats at least 15 years ago, Rick.

 

[M14AMU]

Good gravy...people quit wearing white shoes and white hats at least 15 years ago, Rick.

I can't help the fact that they're too young to know about a great action!! ;D

 

[Rtheurer]

Hello Nick

Your asking some good questions here and getting some good answers from some of the top shooters in the world. I dont fall into any of the above so take my $.02 as it is.

I believe since you shoot the AR based Service rifle... going to a Tube type stock is a good transition. Not that shooting a quality Glass or wood prone stock would be a huge leap but the adjustablity could be an advantage to you. If you decide to give up on the service rifle... your new Tube stock can be had with a Magazine that holds 5 and shot as a Match Rifle as well as a Palma rifle until that day comes. Gary Ellisio can and will sell youboth bottom metal to shoot single or magazine. Just a thought for down the road.

As for actions: I truely believe that just about any action you choose for PALMA will be just fine. As has been pointed out Mr Widden has and uses a Winchester M70.. So how much do you really need? not much is the answer. I shot a LONG action Remmy in 308 for a few years making into the 449 Club twice with that rifle... So again what do you really need?

I have accumalted alot of actions over the last few years but the Barnard isnt one of them. Kinda suprising as its a great action and I dont have anything poor to say about them. They are tanks...Nice and heavy duty.
In a tube Stock I have Two Stiller's, a Big Horn Arms, and a Defiance Mutant. The latter is quit possable the nicest action I have ever handled. All good quality stuff, but again is it really needed in a Palma/ Match rifle?

If your going to Perry this year your welcome to hunt me down and take a look at my stuff to help you along.

The Very Best of luck to you sir, hope it all comes together.

Russ T