Long range 22 cal

[1000yardstare]

It has become apparent over the past year or so that the 90 grainers in .224 were developed for moderate velocity use in the .223 cartridge. Even then, certain well documented range tests have seen the 90 gr bullets shot out of a .223 blowing up down range because of the very fast twists required to stabilize them.

Catch-22 situation, need the very fast twist to stabilize but the increased rotational effects tear the bullet apart and they never reach the target.

If some shooters are having success with 90 gr bullets, more power to them but it is something to think about.

 

[fordwrench]

how fast can the 75-77gr bullets be driven? they are great out of the ar withrl 15. do you think that jacket issue would be a problem at 3400 fps as compared to the 90s? i guess im asking at what point would someone have diminishing returns.

 

[1000yardstare]

We are getting into the voodoo science of structural strength versus angular rotational velocity versus time of flight relative to vector velocity versus barrel life. Could go on but the list of parameters makes for a lot of reading.

Steel jacketed bullets are an attempt to conquer structural strength if barrel life is of no consequence and the barrels can be written off as a business expense.

Have never driven conventional jacketed 75 gr .224 bullets to 3400 fps myself. The Hornady manual shows thin-jacketed 75 gr AMax loaded up to 3500 fps in a 9 twist barrel out of a .22-6mm. Presumably the "slow" twist allows the bullet to be in one piece when it smacks a varmint rather than being a metallic mist. The .22-6mm is relying on velocity rather than twist rate for bullet stability. Have to wonder about barrel life in that baby.

So bullet integrity seems to be more a function of angular velocity rather than vector velocity.

In its simplest terms, don`t spin it too fast and you can drive the damn thing as fast as you want assuming adequate jacket material. Ergo, don`t load a 45 gr Hornet bullet in a .220 Swift or the chuck will wonder what the silver mist was that went by him..

 

[rcparker1]

I have pushed .22cal, 75gr Amax bullets almost 3600fps out of my 22/243 with a 26" 1 in 8 twist barrel. It was worthless though. Very hard on brass, lost accuracy, took over a grain of powder for the extra 100fps not to mention the extra wear on barrel. Rifle seems very happy at around or a little under 3500 fps and get very good brass life.

 

[sscoyote]

22-6mmSLR!? See (comment on) my new thread please.

 

[fordwrench]

Talked to sierra today. One of their tech mentioned the 80gr smk over the 77gr but regardless either one can be pushed 3600 w/o jacket problems out of an 8 twist. Now to pic a case! Why not a 220 swift anybody? Is there something better? I guess if I'm gonna go through the trouble I might as well take advantage of building something w the spped to back it up.

 

[1000yardstare]

I have a Swift in a Rem VSSF. Incredibly accurate combo. But the standard Swift has forward brass flow problems because of its taper. The Swift AI would cure this problem but it is a more expensive Custom die set from Redding.

Earlier in this thread I went with the .22/250 AI because I think it is a more efficient cartridge and Redding offers F/L bushing dies as a standard item.

 

[acloco]

75 gr Amax's will handle 1:8 twist barrel at 3980 fps....from my 22/6mm AI.

I only load this to 3650 to promote a little barrel life though.

 

[fordwrench]

That 22-6mm ai seems really interesting to. Do you think that the fireforming process is wasting your barrel life though. I am very interested in your experience?

 

[acloco]

That 22-6mm ai seems really interesting to. Do you think that the fireforming process is wasting your barrel life though. I am very interested in your experience?

I don't waste fireforming any of my AI stuff. Go shoot paper or prairie dogs...accuracy is VERY good when fireforming.

 

[m-saunoras]

75 gr Amax's will handle 1:8 twist barrel at 3980 fps....from my 22/6mm AI.

man that's hauling. right now the 22-6mm AI peaks my interest, i'd love to see a piece of fireformed brass

ever shoot the 80gr a-max?

 

[acloco]

75 gr Amax's will handle 1:8 twist barrel at 3980 fps....from my 22/6mm AI.

man that's hauling. right now the 22-6mm AI peaks my interest, i'd love to see a piece of fireformed brass
ever shoot the 80gr a-max?

No on the 80's...I use them in my 222 Mag AI (call it "Super Duece").

Here is a couple pictures while fireforming brass for a 223 AI (I was actually testing a new to me scope). Using 55 gr SP's (varmint nightmare) over Benchmark...this is the result:

 

[Rust]

Well, a friend chambered up a 22-284 once. Shot like a laser, barrel didn't last very long though, didn't make 500 rounds.

Best bet would be a 22 BR. Very good brass available with no fire forming, standard reloading dies and components, and probably easier on the barrel. Second option would be a 22-47 using the Lapua brass althouh it would likely be a bit harder on barrels. I'd view the short neck and large rifle primers of the 22-250 as being less desireable.

Anything with greater powder capacity would likely be an excersize in diminishing returns with not a lot of velocity increase for the amount of powder burned and very short barrel life.

 

[cliffy]

Not into exotic variations regarding .223 Remington prowess, yet my powder of choice concerning light bullets is Alliant ReLoder 10x. Out accelerating RamShot X-Terminator, a great powder on it's own, I've pushed Barnes 36 grain Varmint Grenades passed 3950 fps from a 1-in-12" twist 22" barrel. Of course, I use CCI 450 primers, Remington brass, and 26.5 grains of RL-10x. I consider these +P loads for solid bolt-action only rifles. C.O.L. 2.250" and this is NOT a load recommendation for neophites. You know the drill: start 10%light and work-up toward maxy loads. .223 Remington caliber rifles are like small children, so don't push them into power plays beyond expectations of their abilities. Cliffy

 

[Bobs243Ackley]

I have been shooting the .22 BR with a Satern, 27.25" long, 6.5" twist. I have shot the 90gr. MK, and the Berger 82gr. in it so far. During load testing at 100 yards, I have been able to shoot the Sierra into five shot groups that average in the low .2's, and an occaisional big .1's. The Berger has been shooting to the same average. I have shot these out to 400 yards and they have demonstrated good accuracy at these ranges as well. The Sierra has shot the best at 3,050 fps, and I have shot them to just under 3,200 fps before they start showing pressure. I used Neco Quick Load to see what powders would be the best to use, and N550 was the top pick and has proven to work as shown. The other two powders that were showing well in Quick Load are IMR-4895, and Ramshot Hunter. I will be testing these this Summer since the N550 is still in short supply. The CCI 450 primer has been the primer of choice, with the Wolf small rifle mag primers very close as well.

Before Kevin Thomas left Sierra, we had a chance to sit down at dinner during Camp Perry and talk about possibilities why I have not had any problems with the 90gr. MK coming apart on me at the velocities that I am using it at. We came to the possible conclusion that the Satern barrel configuration may be what is working. Steve Satern cuts his barrels with a five groove configuration and uses a canted groove configuration that he calls 5S. Kevin seemed to think that this reduced the friction on the bullet so that it would not fail in flight. Whatever the reason, it seems to work, and results are what count. Kevin felt that these should work well to 1,000 yards since he said that they would fly similar to the .308 shooting the 175gr. bullet.

I hope that this information will prove to helpful for all of you. The reason that I have been shooting this combination was to keep my doctor happy since I have Scoliosis and the low recoil has kept him happy, as well as my shoulder.

Bob Blaine
Sinclair International, Inc.

 

[Steve Blair]

Is the Lapua brass available already? I can't find it anywhere...

I ordered 500 from Powder Valley Wednesday, they shipped Thursday and will arrive Wednesday. After checking just now, I see that they are out of stock, again. Keep watching PV and Graf's and act quickly when they are available.