Loading for a match

[jimmymac]

The problem with going pre-loaded is the potential issue of the gun not liking the powder charge you are running on that particular day (or target) and there isn't anything you can do about it at that point. You end up stuck with a less than ideal tune.

Last weekend I went to the line for my first target with three loads. Two were on either extreme of my normal powder charge window and the third was in the middle. I fired test groups on my sighter, then used the best of the three on the record target. Had I gone pre-loaded I would have had a 66% chance of getting it wrong.

Keep in mind, this is SR BR (group shooting) where it is common to load between relays for the reason above. Tweaking loads is common throughout the day.

Now if I could just figure out how to use that tuner!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Now if I could just figure out how to use that tuner!

if only we could find a tuner that would keep it from getting too hot outside and blowing the load up we would have something.

 

[grovey]

No one where I shoot is loading at the match. Even the guys shooting cu$tom classes all seem to come loaded with what they'll shoot. It's pretty much run whatcha brung as far as I can see.

 

[ClassCat]

if only we could find a tuner that would keep it from getting too hot outside and blowing the load up we would have something.

As we both know the logical approach is to "CHASE THE LOAD DOWN". But if you are not loading on site there goes that option.

 

[stifffingers]

As we both know the logical approach is to "CHASE THE LOAD DOWN". But if you are not loading on site there goes that option.

The best score match ever for me was a 250/21X 30BR with ammo loaded over one year old. Most likely just luck.

 

[ClassCat]

The best score match ever for me was a 250/21X 30BR with ammo loaded over one year old. Most likely just luck.

I sometimes shoot loads that are left over from a match in the same gun 6 months later and they shoot well. After looking at the Temperature, and other atmospheric data those loads fall into an area that i would have chosen on that day. I would rather be both LUCKY AND GOOD

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

The best score match ever for me was a 250/21X 30BR with ammo loaded over one year old. Most likely just luck.

Not luck at all. - More like properly loaded ammo & a positive minded shooter pulling the trigger.

 

[JimSC]

Ok forgive my ignorance here but I have to ask. I don't do SR or LR bench rest however I may try it someday.

I have done load development in the past at the range, it is ok on a calm day but add even a little wind and it is a pain. These days I use Erik Cortina's 100 yd load development method and have found several loads that shoot consistent velocities across a wide range of powder weights. I have one load in particular that I can load .2 on either side and still be within a 10 - 15 FPS average across a .5 grain spread. I have shot that load from the low 40's to high 90's temp wise and it always has very predictable results. I have been tuning the velocity consistency looking for flat nodes using powder charge then fine tuning the grouping with seating depth and primer choice. Why would that method not work for SR BR ?

If someone could explain or recommend some good reading I would be grateful. I have only gotten really serious about shooting about 18 months ago so there are tons more tricks and info that I don't know compared to what I do know

 

[ClassCat]

Not luck at all. - More like properly loaded ammo & a positive minded shooter pulling the trigger.

As an example of luck, on the Feb. match @ 200 yards,my first shot on target didn't go where i expected it to go so i fired a sighter that went 2 bullet holes right.I said to myself i'll take a.350 @200, i went back to the record and fired and it went into the same hole as the first. I fired the other 3. The group ended up being a .158 @ 200. That was LUCK, and being Good at the same time.

 

[ClassCat]

Ok forgive my ignorance here but I have to ask. I don't do SR or LR bench rest however I may try it someday.

I have done load development in the past at the range, it is ok on a calm day but add even a little wind and it is a pain. These days I use Erik Cortina's 100 yd load development method and have found several loads that shoot consistent velocities across a wide range of powder weights. I have one load in particular that I can load .2 on either side and still be within a 10 - 15 FPS average across a .5 grain spread. I have shot that load from the low 40's to high 90's temp wise and it always has very predictable results. I have been tuning the velocity consistency looking for flat nodes using powder charge then fine tuning the grouping with seating depth and primer choice. Why would that method not work for SR BR ?

If someone could explain or recommend some good reading I would be grateful. I have only gotten really serious about shooting about 18 months ago so there are tons more tricks and info that I don't know compared to what I do know

Basically you are in NODE. As far as temperature is concerned I am not disputing your claim, however I have found when temperature starts going about 70 to 75° is when a reduction in powder is needed. I have documentation going back as 20 years proving this statement. Once a good powder is found one thing that is taken into consideration is the load window. Many of us however do not look at Standard deviations or any other data such as E S. What we are interested in issued a smallest Group possible, regardless of what the chronograph Lab radar says, except for load window range..
I know VERY FEW S R B R shooters that will change primer brands and types. EVERYTHING is standardized for consistency.

 

[pat fulghum]

I like my powder to be as fresh as possible so I usually load the morning of the match usually around 4 AM.

It is very rare for me to load more than 2days ahead

 

[JimSC]

Basically you are in NODE. As far as temperature is concerned I am not disputing your claim, however I have found when temperature starts going about 70 to 75° is when a reduction in powder is needed. I have documentation going back as 20 years proving this statement. Once a good powder is found one thing that is taken into consideration is the load window. Many of us however do not look at Standard deviations or any other data such as E S. What we are interested in issued a smallest Group possible, regardless of what the chronograph Lab radar says, except for load window range..
I know VERY FEW S R B R shooters that will change primer brands and types. EVERYTHING is standardized for consistency.

I don't want to derail the thread any farther than it is already but I will post this. I exaggerated a bit on the temps. I developed it last November on a warm afternoon, by my records it was 50F. Back in March I had the chrono set up for another gun and ran a few of this load and gun to sight in for a match and it was 36F. There was a 3 FPS difference. I have a couple of other loads that seem to behave the same way. Powders are 4831SC, Varget, and H4350 which are all relatively temperature stable. I have pretty much narrowed it down to those three for .223 heavies and .260 with 120 - 140gr which are the only two cartridges I shoot now.

Anyway back to the OP I like the luxury of being able to take my time on my match loads.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

My activity at the range is limited to bullet seating depth changes. - I'll load a 50 round box at +0.007 (jam) and then fire a group after the barrel foulers / sighters. - My last range trip out I had some brass to fire-form to an improved chamber so I approached it as an opportunity to check bullet seating depth for a bullet that I had not used previously.
After shooting 5 at +0.007, using a Lee hand press & a Whidden bullet seater I pushed the next 5 bullets 0.014 down and shot them & repeated in 0.007 increments. I managed to find a "sweet-spot" during the course of firing in 5 round groups, not something that could be done at a match & expect competitive results.
- All the matches (1000 yds) that I've shot in the ammo was pre-loaded & had been tested. - Most of the shooters had pre-loaded their ammo at least for the first relays shot on the first day. - Some had trailers & RV's so I imagine that there was opportunity for some to adjust their load for the following days relays that were shot.

- Ron -

 

[K22]

I am not a last minute Charley ..

I have Boxes of Brass all prepped and primed.( 800)
I have anywhere for 400 to 900 + Rounds loaded with Bullets seated long .

I have 300 to 500 + ready to shoot a Match .
I shoot Palma .308 a weekend could be 200 +

Presumably seated long because of the "Cold Weld" effect. Are there any studies to substantiate this effect because I've never experienced it. I normally load 500 to 600 round of 223 Rem in the winter for the upcoming varmint season. I haven't notice any radical changes in group size with these 'pre-loaded rounds' versus freshly loaded rounds. Of course I haven't done a scientific control study either nor am I a bench rest shooter.

Also, if the cold weld affect is true how do manufacturer's prevent this with factory loads especially match grade ammo. Do they coat the bullet or inside the neck to prevent cold welding?

 

[Longtrain]

Once I got a load that I was satisfied with, I would load it a week, 2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks before a match, whenever. Never noticed a problem with consistency or performance.

However, once stainless steel pin cleaning came to be, I was told that squeaky clean brass can "weld" onto the bullet effecting bullet release, therefore accuracy. Insert paranoia here (PARANOIA), so now I'm terrified that something that I never noticed before is now going to make me shoot lousy. There maybe something to that theory, so, now I only shoot matches with cases that have been fired and have that carbon "insulation" in the neck. I still clean with pins, but those cases are relegated for practice before being set aside for matches.

As timing would have it, I load a week or so before a match, but if I have match loads from a previous match, I don't hesitate to use them.

 

[Eric Leonard]

for UBR Score matches I size and prime brass on Thursday night and charge powder and seat bullets on Friday night,,
I take 120 rounds and whatever is left over gets shot in 5 shot groups about half way between matches,,,that way I dont put over 120 rds a month on my bbl and have fresh ammo which should all be the same for match day,,

 

[JimSC]

Presumably seated long because of the "Cold Weld" effect. Are there any studies to substantiate this effect because I've never experienced it.

no one in the shooting sports has. I am in the middle of a argument on another forum dealing with "cold welding". For cold welding to occur the two metals must be the same, be squeaky clean and in a vacuum among other things. Cohesion and adhesion of bullet to case may or may not be a issue for reloaders but cold welding at a molecular level is impossible. Just getting a copper to brass braze is difficult using heat and flux

 

[K22]

no one in the shooting sports has. I am in the middle of a argument on another forum dealing with "cold welding". For cold welding to occur the two metals must be the same, be squeaky clean and in a vacuum among other things. Cohesion and adhesion of bullet to case may or may not be a issue for reloaders but cold welding at a molecular level is impossible. Just getting a copper to brass braze is difficult using heat and flux

Not sure what you mean by "cohesion and adhesion". As I said previously, I've never experienced any problems with reloads that were loaded 6 months to 18 months previously (some left over from one varmint season to another).

This never entered my mind until I started reading threads on the internet about "cold welding". Just another "thing" to get into my old head when I'm sighting in on a ghog or coyote far off. Well I have to have some excuse for missing, can't be me.

P.S. I got a ghog crawler last night, 217 yards. Then an hour later missed a crawler at 203 yards which should never happen with my Weatherby Super V. Must have been "semi-cold welding" since the rounds were loaded in February.

 

[JimSC]

Not sure what you mean by "cohesion and adhesion". As I said previously, I've never experienced any problems with reloads that were loaded 6 months to 18 months previously (some left over from one varmint season to another).

This never entered my mind until I started reading threads on the internet about "cold welding". Just another "thing" to get into my old head when I'm sighting in on a ghog or coyote far off. Well I have to have some excuse for missing, can't be me.

P.S. I got a ghog crawler last night, 217 yards. Then an hour later missed a crawler at 203 yards which should never happen with my Weatherby Super V. Must have been "semi-cold welding" since the rounds were loaded in February.

Unless you're sending ammo to the space station I would not let it worry me

 

[Steve Ladino]

Nothing serious. I've been playing a bit at the local Ghog matches in the factory class. The reason I asked is I tend to load the evening before rather than 3 or 4 days or even a week before. I feel I get better results with freshly loaded rds. Maybe I just have more confidence, but......

That is the common belief , to load as close to pulling the trigger on it as you can, although firing old ammo.....say, left over the winter months ie: .223 shoots right in there like the fresh stuff.