Load Map: 20 Vartarg, 32 gr. Vmax - Data Call - VV N120, CFE BLK, and AA 2200

[cranky]

As some build projects go, from the time I began piecing together a 20 VT to now some time has passed. The biggest change being the loss of the Saubier.com forum and its extensive archive of load data for small caliber data, as well as the retirement of Todd Kindler. I am about to begin load development and have much less information to go on than I began this long project with.

I have built a 20 VT rifle on a 26" 1:10 twist Wilson bbl with a no-turn chamber. I've formed several hundred cases from .223, starting with 100 Denel South Africa (DNl) brass, 100 Hornady, and 250 Starline. The Starline brass formed easily, is consistent, and came out with excellent neck dimensions so it is likely what I will use in the future.

I stocked up on 32 gr. Vmax projectiles for the 10-twist barrel because of availability and price.

I have 3 powders to use, from fastest to slowest: CFE BLK, AA 2200, and VV N120.

Hodgdon provides the following for AA 2200:
32 NBT (24"/1:12tw) min 17.6 gr @ 3262, max 19.6 gr @ 3632
32 SIE (24"/1:12tw) min 18.0 gr @ 3377, max 20.0 gr @ 3758

The Accurateshooter cartridge guide for 20 VT gives:
32 Vmax/VV N120 17.8 gr @ 3715 (1:12tw)
32 Vmax/AA2200 20.5 gr @ 3800 (1:12tw)
32 SBK VV N120 17.6 gr @ 3750 (23" bbl)

There are a smattering of loads when I search through the forum here, but not the data trove of load development and discussion of pressures and case fill that was available on Saubier before. I am confident I can get the AA 2200 sorted out for testing, and would like to work towards 3700 fps after fire forming. But I'm at a bit of a loss for the CFE BLK and what I've posted above doesn't really provide enough information on VV N120 to get a feel for it's ramp rate.

I would appreciate any input folks here can share on load development for the 32gr Vmax and these three powders. Also, after Hodgdon's acquisition of Accurate, is old data for AA 2200 still reliable?

 

[Gabe22BR]

N120 is close to H4198 burn rate.. I used that as a place to start 5% down from listed H4198 load from Sierra manual… I find it to be the safest temp stable of the powders you listed… AA2200 will get into trouble when it gets warm outside..

-had no dealings w/ CFE BLK- if it’s a ball powder.. it’ll be very volatile in temperature change as well…just like AA2200…

 

[chuckshooter]

I load for 6 vartarg's. All 32 vmax. All 2200 powder. 20 to 20.3grs. I did load 20.8 for a while. But have since backed off. Be careful with different brass. For me different brass, different load .

 

[20 TAC]

What chuckshooter said. ^^^^^ Different brass, likely a different load.

I’m shooting a 10 twist Vartarg with 20 grains of 2200 and it shoots extremely well. That is with Lapua 221 brass.

 

[cranky]

N120 is close to H4198 burn rate.. I used that as a place to start 5% down from listed H4198 load from Sierra manual… I find it to be the safest temp stable of the powders you listed… AA2200 will get into trouble when it gets warm outside..

-had no dealings w/ CFE BLK- if it’s a ball powder.. it’ll be very volatile in temperature change as well…just like AA2200…

Noted, these are all single base powders and temp sensitive. I'm reluctant to substitute charge weights based on burn rate, since burn rate is not related to energy density, which could lead to trouble. I respect your rationale, but there's more to it based on my understanding.

I load for 6 vartarg's. All 32 vmax. All 2200 powder. 20 to 20.3grs. I did load 20.8 for a while. But have since backed off. Be careful with different brass. For me different brass, different load .

Thank you, the range gives me something to work with! I will make a point of measuring case volume after fire forming and including it in my notes when I do my chrono workup. The smaller the case, the greater the impact a change in case volume will have on pressure and velocity. What are your velocities for the 32 grainers when you were happy with your AA 2200 load?

What chuckshooter said. ^^^^^ Different brass, likely a different load.

I’m shooting a 10 twist Vartarg with 20 grains of 2200 and it shoots extremely well. That is with Lapua 221 brass.

From what I've measured and read, my Starline brass should be comparable to the necked Lapua 221 coming out of the dies. I won't make any assumptions until I can measure case capacity in grains of water after fire forming. Looking good for 20 grains of AA 2200 to start, thanks. What velocity are you getting on that charge?

 

[Richard Jones]

N120 & H4198 here....and a sprinkle of 8208. 10 twist, but a very short barrel, so my velocities are not going to be of any use to you. I am not concerned with velocity so much, as it just doesn't mean much at the distances that I shoot. If a slower load is adequately accurate, I'm happy.

 

[20 TAC]

About 3,700 fps. To be clear, safe in MY rifle! Would not suggest that as your starting point for Starline brass.

 

[cranky]

N120 & H4198 here....and a sprinkle of 8208. 10 twist, but a very short barrel, so my velocities are not going to be of any use to you. I am not concerned with velocity so much, as it just doesn't mean much at the distances that I shoot. If a slower load is adequately accurate, I'm happy.

Nearby, I only have short and medium ranges, which is what brought me to the 20 VT to begin with. I used to have easy access and weekly practice at 1000 yards, now I do my shooting within the Seattle I-5 corridor where 100 and 200 yards is standard. I get weekly 300 shoots at a club I have a membership at, and during spring-summer can get 300 and 500 yard highpower matches, anything more than that is a long drive... I wanted to "feel" the limits of ballistics and have to contend with wind to some extent as I've learned to do in long range, so enter 20 VT. I'm just interested in poking holes in paper, but I'm driven to optimize.

What kind of charge weights are you using in N120?

 

[chuckshooter]

I just bought 1000 pieces of starline brass, haven't decided what to do with it yet but, I'm sure I'll come up with something.

My velocities are from 3660fps to almost 3800fps I have been in the 4k range before but , as I said before, I backed off.
My reasons for using 2200 are.. I had it.. I could get more. It measures good through my powder thrower . As a high volume shooter, 13,600 rounds shot and reloaded last year, I can't/won't do that on the A &D. I do have some that get run through the scale for every load but most of my .20 cal is in the powder thrower
If you are after the most accurate vartarg known to man listen to Gabe. He knows his stuff.

I'm just waiting for late February, when the mayhem resumes.

 

[cranky]

About 3,700 fps. To be clear, safe in MY rifle! Would not suggest that as your starting point for Starline brass.

Acknowledged, 20 gr of 2200 is the top of the load map as provided by Hodgdon, and 20.3 is hot. Thanks!

 

[cranky]

I just bought 1000 pieces of starline brass, haven't decided what to do with it yet but, I'm sure I'll come up with something.

My velocities are from 3660fps to almost 3800fps I have been in the 4k range before but , as I said before, I backed off.
My reasons for using 2200 are.. I had it.. I could get more. It measures good through my powder thrower . As a high volume shooter, 13,600 rounds shot and reloaded last year, I can't/won't do that on the A &D. I do have some that get run through the scale for every load but most of my .20 cal is in the powder thrower
If you are after the most accurate vartarg known to man listen to Gabe. He knows his stuff.

I'm just waiting for late February, when the mayhem resumes.

I chose the AA 2200, CFE BLK, and N120 based the good coverage those powders had for 20 VT on Saubier. I never would have expected that to all disappear overnight, I had barely gotten the powders in hand when poof, the data was gone! I know where they fit on the burn rate chart, but lacking pressure data and velocity data, it leaves me with polling here or starting quite low and working up slowly and guessing at pressures. I'd much rather start in the middle with the experience of others, it's a much shorter path to sorting what works in my rifle vs. starting from scratch. Thanks for your input!

 

[20 TAC]

A couple more links from this site that may be useful for you.

LT-32 Loads for 20 VarTarg for 32, 39 & 40 grain bullets?

I'm in the beginning stages of planning a 20 VT rifle build. I've been looking at posts, and started compiling some potential loads for this caliber, so I can have components on hand when I can actually start testing... when it's actually built. In looking at what appear to be the most popular...

forum.accurateshooter.com

20 vartarg and CFE BLK

I am just getting involved in the Vartarg. I have a load with Reloader 7 worked out but generally I like throwing ball powders for my high volume gopher shooting. I want to use CFE BLK but don’t see any good data references. I started at 18grs and went to 19.2. All primers seemed flat even...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[hogpatrol]

AA2200 and other Hodgdon powder load data for the 20 Vargart can be found on their website, here:

Hodgdon Reloading Data Center – The Brand Thats True

hodgdonreloading.com

 

[chuckshooter]

most of the info from Saubier is available on here now. If you were a regular over there. you could see the handwriting on the wall. little by little, less maintenance on the site and new members struggled trying to get on. I still miss it.
In my opinion, and for what that's worth. (not much) you have enough info to get started. there's no secret formula. have fun and keep us posted on the results.

 

[Rick300]

N120 has given me some of the smallest groups ever in my VT. In MY rifle 17.7 is my cold weather load and 17.5 for warmer weather. This is with Starline brass.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I use Starline brass myself- great stuff!!! Just not instock anywhere…

I’m @ 18.22gr in my 20VT & 19.2gr in my 20VtAI.. =N120..

I tried 2200 in it-20gr .. on one day.. the next day…even that produced dangerous situations from 1 day to next.. so on your own there.. I did get more velocity.. not better accuracy….use them ball powders at your desecration- you can only ruin a primer pocket..or 20…

I fireform w/ 18.22gr N120… from 20VT to 20VT improved..

All my ball powder was used to start my brush piles, I no longer own any..

Note: I do WS2 coat my 32 Nosler bullets..& all my actions are custom, Bat SV, Bat SB, Cooper M21

LT32,AA2230 also good - @3800fps..

It probably best you start working up your loads (2rds each) over a chronograph , till ya lose a primer pocket, or get a very hard bolt lift-
then see where it printed a single hole at distance on target.. that’ll be your accuracy node
Then you can test other powders over chronograph to achieve the same velocity ( should be same accuracy node no matter the powder) ..


That’s my .02 cents…

I miss Sauiber.. some of my loads was on there.. gone now..

 

[Richard Jones]

.....What kind of charge weights are you using in N120?

17.5 in my rifle...

 

[cranky]

This has been a constructive evening. I have a much better idea about starting points based on your feedback. I will start loading ladder tests at:

AA 2200: 19.6 gr
VV N120: 17.3 gr (@Richard Jones data point)
CFE BLK: 18.3 gr

I ladder in 5 round strings to find the region in 0.2 grain steps, then load 10 round strings in 0.1 grain steps with distance to lands increments, all grouped in 5 shots on paper. Everything over the chrono and stats on sets of ten.

Slightly flattened primers are ok, flowed primers are not. Looking for accuracy and efficiency.

Thank you all for your input. I will start loading. I have pistol matches the next two weekends, but I hope to get a bench day on one of the Fridays. I will post my results here. It will take at least two range days to see where I land after fire forming.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I shoot 35 bergers in my 20vt. Did a LOT of testing. I use norma brass and in my rifle 17.7 gr n-120 was max.
LT-30 18.2 gr shot great but not max. Went as high as 18.5 without pressure.
with sierra 32 bk, A-2200, 19.8 gr shot 3758 fps and no pressure, .5”
A-5744, 18.0 gr with sierra bk shot 3725 fps and .061”

my rifle is 11 twist

 

[chuckshooter]

Slightly flattened primers are ok, flowed primers are not. Looking for accuracy and efficiency.

since you brought that up, I now load all of my small .20 caliber rifles' with CCI450's. in my opinion they flow the least. 7 of my small 20's are Martini actions and any flow at all and it's hard to open the action. I know sherm likes 7 1/2's but after 7000 of them. no more for me.