I have loaded a bunch over the years but, just getting back into precision shooting. When developing the best load for a gun, should you find the most accurate charge and then work on seating depth or, vise versa? If neither of those, what are your suggestions? This will be for both a 223 AR shooting 77gr Bergers and / or SMKs and, a 6BR shooting, most likely, 108gr Bergers.
Load development question
- Thread starter cavedweller60
- Start date
Thank you gentlemen, for your quick answers.
Texas Solo
B.S. High Master
Well, that's not how I do it.
I vary the charge first in .2 increments. I pick the best, then do seating depth. After that, I revisit the charge weight. Works for me.
I vary the charge first in .2 increments. I pick the best, then do seating depth. After that, I revisit the charge weight. Works for me.
So we have 2 for powder charge and 2 for seating depth....can someone break the tie? Is there a rationale you use for the process you recommend? Thanks again for all your opinions.
Sure I'll break it....
I used to do charge 1st,
Until I found out doing seating 1st saves in time and components....
You're going to get a variety of answers, none of which could be necessarily wrong.
Here's my experience of 50+ years of reloading.
1. Select a powder which as a proven historical record with the cartridge you are loading. I found the extruded powder works better over a wide range of temperature than ball powder. Also, ball powder is more sensitive to small charges changes.
2. Select a bullet that meets your needs. If hunting, terminal performance is a key factor to consider. Match the bullet with the twist rate of the rifle. Rarely have I found that Sierra and Nosler bullets don't produce the best accuracy. However, I have never experimented with Berger which a lot of top shooters use.
3. Select an appropriate primer i.e., standard or magnum, for the powder you have chosen. I keep the primer as a constant and only change when nothing else works to produce the accuracy I need. To date, this has not happened.
4. Seating depth. Since I am primarily a precision varmint hunter, I start .020" off the lands or further if required by the magazine or amount of free bore in the rifle. I also like to have sufficient bullet length inside the neck to assure adequate bullet tension under recoil. I use the old "rule of thumb" of one bullet diameter minus the boat tail inside the neck.
The most influential component with few exceptions that I found is the bullet selection. In most of my rifles seating depth within reason, is not a significant factor that I can detect. For example, my Remington 700 varmint has a lot of free bore necessitating considerable amount of jump yet this rifle shoots on par with all my other rifles.
The other issue which I consider critical is case management. I strive for optimum case fit in the chamber and use only virgin cases dedicated to a specific rifle and I rotate their use. I full size all my case all the time.
Here's my experience of 50+ years of reloading.
1. Select a powder which as a proven historical record with the cartridge you are loading. I found the extruded powder works better over a wide range of temperature than ball powder. Also, ball powder is more sensitive to small charges changes.
2. Select a bullet that meets your needs. If hunting, terminal performance is a key factor to consider. Match the bullet with the twist rate of the rifle. Rarely have I found that Sierra and Nosler bullets don't produce the best accuracy. However, I have never experimented with Berger which a lot of top shooters use.
3. Select an appropriate primer i.e., standard or magnum, for the powder you have chosen. I keep the primer as a constant and only change when nothing else works to produce the accuracy I need. To date, this has not happened.
4. Seating depth. Since I am primarily a precision varmint hunter, I start .020" off the lands or further if required by the magazine or amount of free bore in the rifle. I also like to have sufficient bullet length inside the neck to assure adequate bullet tension under recoil. I use the old "rule of thumb" of one bullet diameter minus the boat tail inside the neck.
The most influential component with few exceptions that I found is the bullet selection. In most of my rifles seating depth within reason, is not a significant factor that I can detect. For example, my Remington 700 varmint has a lot of free bore necessitating considerable amount of jump yet this rifle shoots on par with all my other rifles.
The other issue which I consider critical is case management. I strive for optimum case fit in the chamber and use only virgin cases dedicated to a specific rifle and I rotate their use. I full size all my case all the time.
If it doesn't show promise with 5-10 shots further tinkering won't help. It's expensive to try different powders and bullets. Trying to force small groups with a particular powder and bullet may be a waste of time and money. Check out the load maps on this website for your calibers. If it shoots small in someone elses gun it may not work in yours. At some point you have to decide this is the best I can get with this rifle.
foxguy
Gold $$ Contributor
I am now doing seating depth first. From all of the reading I have done here, I have learned that you need to identify the seating depth (that the bullet that you are using) likes to be seated at (producing the smallest group size). I start by identifying the Touch point of the bullet to the lands. Then, I will get started. I use a Powder Charge that is moderate, something 1-1.5 grains less than the charge that I'm expecting to be my final powder charge. Initially I will vary the seating depth by .005., building 3 cartridges of each seating depth for testing. I test on relatively calm wind days with wind flags. Once I have Identified the seating depth, I move on to the Powder Charge testing, with the 6MM BR, I will increase the powder charge in .2 gr increments. Again, building three of each powder charge for testing. Wishing you the best with your testing.
I follow the method that some B R shooters use that was established by Tony Boyer. It involves several powder charges and several seating depths shot on the same target in sequence in which I have found will show a pattern for both. If there is no knowledge of the powder being used in the load a powder ladder has to be run in order to find a max charge and back down away from that charge to a lesser amount. I have refined my testing and have settled on three or more powder charges and three or more increments of seating depth to find that pattern. So far I have been able to find a pattern with all the new loads I have developed. Ultimately, I go to the middle of that pattern and load some 5-shot groups to verify and look at E S & S D #s
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I run a charge weight test looking for least vertical dispersion in a 0.4+ gr range. Bullet is usually seated to the manufacturer suggested coal. After finding the "best" load I than will tweak the seating depth, if needed. For me (hunting and prairie dogs) nice round poi touching (varmint) to under moa(elk) repeated several range trips out to 300 yards is enough testing. Typically 3-5 rd groups with cold bores included for hunting rifles. Prairie dog rounds loads must shoot well with cold-warm barrels in warm temps.
I'm, a Lazy bast___d ,..
First, I pick the BEST Ball Powder for,.. THROWN Charges, in my 6 XC or, 6.5 Creed and That's,. StaBall 65 then, I DO "Pressure Testing", then, Seat the Bullets Longer than,.. Hogdon States ( Adjusting them, Later ) go Shoot and IF, under, ( or, Around ).. a 1/4 MOA ,.. I'm,. Done ! ( Settle for 1/2 MOA, most of the Time, tho ! )
I use, Win 748 Powder with 3 Different Bullets ( 60 gr. NBT's, 65 gr. SGK's and 69 gr. SMK's ), in my .223 Rem/ 5.56 and All 3 loads shoot, Sub MOA @ 100 from my 16" AA-15, Adams Arms rifle.
Throwing charges of, Ball Powders makes Life,.. so much, Simpler !
And Re-Loading,.. FASTER !
First, I pick the BEST Ball Powder for,.. THROWN Charges, in my 6 XC or, 6.5 Creed and That's,. StaBall 65 then, I DO "Pressure Testing", then, Seat the Bullets Longer than,.. Hogdon States ( Adjusting them, Later ) go Shoot and IF, under, ( or, Around ).. a 1/4 MOA ,.. I'm,. Done ! ( Settle for 1/2 MOA, most of the Time, tho ! )
I use, Win 748 Powder with 3 Different Bullets ( 60 gr. NBT's, 65 gr. SGK's and 69 gr. SMK's ), in my .223 Rem/ 5.56 and All 3 loads shoot, Sub MOA @ 100 from my 16" AA-15, Adams Arms rifle.
Throwing charges of, Ball Powders makes Life,.. so much, Simpler !
And Re-Loading,.. FASTER !
Ccrider
Gold $$ Contributor
My experience also. I recently started doing seating depth first for the same reason.
I determine what powder i want to use. Generic seating depth and play with powder charges. Then i take the best looking one and change seating depth. In one rifle i thought i just had a twist rate that was off for a particular bullet weight. 5 shots barly made it onto all the paper with 2 different charge weights. Changed powder and first group was 3/4 inch and got way better. Bullet just did not like that other powder.
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