Lil'Gun Powder - .22 Hornet / .17 Hornet (Terrible discrepancies)

[xr650rRider]

Not certain on relative strengths but would have to believe the Ruger #1 would be strongest. I will say that even with the wild velocity swings I saw with Lil'gun and I have to equate high velocity with high pressure. I never had a case failure. Primer pockets may have stretched a little but they weren't completely loose. I know the Anschutz 1730 is not as strong as some on your list and I had no problems.

 

[wkndwarrior]

Appreciate all the posts towards my initial question. Did it clear up anything..... only to the point that, as I initially stated..... some swear by it and some swear at it. I have a new 8# keg so I will try it with kit gloves and pay much attention to pressure. One last question. Out of my 5 gun listed below does anyone know relative chambers strengths and which I should be most concerned about, ie. which has the strongest and which has the weakest. I know some stones have been thrown at the Savage as it was built on their .22 action so I guess that is the one I will monitor the most. Not positive but I believe the Kimber 82 is also built on their .22 action, but not positive. In order of strength ?

Ruger #1 .22 Hornet
Win 1885 .22 Hornet
Kimber 82 .22 Hornet
Savage 40 Varmit Hunter HB - .22 Hornet
CZ 527 American .17 Hornet

Thanks everyone

I have a handful of falling block and martini actions and regardless of chamber strength you just can't load them as hot as a bolt action rifle. In some consequence of a failed primer or case is more significant, and others are just a pain to extract with a stiff load. If this is a concern of yours then I would recommend sticking to a bolt action.

 

[Gunraptor]

I have a handful of falling block and martini actions and regardless of chamber strength you just can't load them as hot as a bolt action rifle. In some consequence of a failed primer or case is more significant, and others are just a pain to extract with a stiff load. If this is a concern of yours then I would recommend sticking to a bolt action.

Interesting.... I would have guessed just like xr650 that the Ruger #1 would have been the strongest. There is a lot of mass in the receiver. I take it by your statement that a blown primer or case would be worse in a dropping block vs a bolt ? I would be interested in hearing how you substantiate that claim.

 

[dellet]

Interesting.... I would have guessed just like xr650 that the Ruger #1 would have been the strongest. There is a lot of mass in the receiver. I take it by your statement that a blown primer or case would be worse in a dropping block vs a bolt ? I would be interested in hearing how you substantiate that claim.

It’s not that the action that’s the problem, it’s the extraction/ejection. Hot loads in a bolt action get sticky, but the bolt has a camming effect to brake the stuck case free from the chamber.

Ruger, Winchester falling blocks have a little piece if steel about the width and thickness of a pocket screw driver that need to lever that same stuck case out of the chamber. Pounding on the lever bends or brakes the extractor.

So with brass like 22 hornet fired at 35,000 psi are a bigger issue than 7mm mag at 65,000 psi. fired in tha same action.

 

[wkndwarrior]

Interesting.... I would have guessed just like xr650 that the Ruger #1 would have been the strongest. There is a lot of mass in the receiver. I take it by your statement that a blown primer or case would be worse in a dropping block vs a bolt ? I would be interested in hearing how you substantiate that claim.

Most bolts are ported to redirect the gas while very few falling blocks are ported. So in the event of a ruptured primer you can take some gas to the face. I've experienced it first hand and always wear shooting glasses with the falling blocks. I don't think this applies to the No. 1, but some falling blocks also have a floated firing pin which can also pose a different risk.

That said, IMO the probability of challenging the strength of the action with a hornet case is probably pretty low with anything modern.

 

[MGYSGT]

I shoot H110 and the 34 gr Hornady in hornet. I bought the CZ because my wife thinks the .223 has too much recoil. I tried lilgun but the H110 just shoots better. I also use the H110 in my .410 so I only need to store 1 powder.

 

[searcher]

Keep in mind that some guys just dump a charge straight from the hopper and call it good. Some powders might be much more forgiving of this process than 'Lil Gun. As you (probably) know from your .22 Hornets, 1/10th of a grain difference is HUGE in these small cartridges and if there was ever a want or need for an accurate scale, this is the caliber that demands it- and not everyone has one or uses it. I'd not hesitate to try your powder. Prudent loading will not get you into trouble. It may be everything you want. That said, I have the same rifle and the two best powders I tried for my rifle were H4198 (no longer around?) and IMR 4227. I run it with 9.3 grains of IMR 4427 for a relatively low powered load, shooting 20 grain V-Max at 3,175 fps for close-in gopher blasting. Very accurate and brass lasts a long time. I've not tried CFE BLK as another option that other shooters seem to like. One would have to have all of the actions you describe to know which ones "appear" the strongest. My bet (not knowing what I don't know) would be the Ruger for being strongest. I think you will really enjoy that .17H! I suggest doing a skim bed on your action and, if you have the gear, turn the necks on your brass for absolute best accuracy. It makes a significantly bigger difference on these small cases than it does on larger calibers. Without turning necks, you can tell when seating your bullets, there is much more variation in seating pressure from round to round than larger calibers. That might not be true with all brass - I use Hornady in my .17H. Back when I bought my rifle, brass was unavailable, so I bought factory Hornady ammo to get the brass. That factory ammo was pretty darn impressive in my rifle.

 

[chuckshooter]

I thought Litl,gun was the bomb in my 22 hornet and turns out, I was right. NO more litl,gun for me, AA1680 works great and is the easiest powder to accurately throw in my powder thrower that I have ever used.

 

[xr650rRider]

Keep in mind that some guys just dump a charge straight from the hopper and call it good. Some powders might be much more forgiving of this process than 'Lil Gun.

I used an A&D FX-120i for all of my loads. Garmin Xero C1 as chronograph.

 

[17cal Fan]

I had a Savage 25 Walking Varminter in 17H. Burned the bolt face with Rem 6.5 primers and AA1680. Remington told me the 17H was a little hot for the 6.5. This was shortly after the 17H hit the market. Some folks said early Hornady brass had weak or loose pockets. I replaced the bolt face and switched to 7.5 primers and never had any more issues. Shooting a CZ 527 Varmint now in 17H running 1680 with great accuracy. Ran the Savage through a chipper shredder. Not really but that was my first inclination but sold it instead.

In my CZ 22 Hornets, Lil Gun makes me nervous but it is accurate. Get a flat primer once in a while but other than that no major issues.

 

[stacy]

I had no issues with LilGun in my regular 22hornet but boy it went crazy in my K-Hornet so it eats CFE-Black now

 

[LCazador]

Appreciate all the posts towards my initial question. Did it clear up anything..... only to the point that, as I initially stated..... some swear by it and some swear at it. I have a new 8# keg so I will try it with kit gloves and pay much attention to pressure. One last question. Out of my 5 gun listed below does anyone know relative chambers strengths and which I should be most concerned about, ie. which has the strongest and which has the weakest. I know some stones have been thrown at the Savage as it was built on their .22 action so I guess that is the one I will monitor the most. Not positive but I believe the Kimber 82 is also built on their .22 action, but not positive. In order of strength ?

Ruger #1 .22 Hornet
Win 1885 .22 Hornet
Kimber 82 .22 Hornet
Savage 40 Varmit Hunter HB - .22 Hornet
CZ 527 American .17 Hornet

Thanks everyone

Any rear lug gun is prone to stretching brass much more than a front lug. With 22 Hornet brass it's pretty thin as it's manufactured. I believe the Kimber and Savage are rear lug guns so I would be careful in shooting any potent loads in them. The 17 Hornet by CZ has very long free bore. It's best to alter the magazine for a longer cartridge. I suggest using Norma brass made by RWS now.

 

[jds holler]

It occurs to me that I don't even know what Lil Gun looks like. Is it a spherical, flake, or long grain?? Does it meter well? jd

 

[xr650rRider]

Flake and 2 lbs that I had, almost an oily characteristic. I pulled some bullets on about 240 PPU cases (so I could anneal again) and the powder was almost like a plastic in the case. Took a drill bit to loosen it up. These had only been loaded a few days.

 

[209jones]

There is a fair bit of strange results stuff showing around the net with L'il Gun, think it's had one or two recalls way back. I have some from about 2010 era, used it in my 218 Bee. I started at listed min, had max velocity right off the bat, said 3100 was max velocity with a 40gr, I was at 3060, no pressure signs, ran it to 13.3 and got to 3400 before showing pressure at 13.6, showed 14.5 as max at the time, around 2016 or so. I'd had the same experience with a lot of 4320 about 35 yrs or so ago, turned out it was a recall lot. Didn't see any recalls listed on the Lil'Gun, but, it made me suspicious, I ened up using AA1680 as I just didn't trust the Lil Gun. I did run 20 rds at 3250 with no issues, but, it was spooking me, so, put it away. That was on a Stevens 44-1/2.