Least temp sensitive, H1000 or N165?

[1KBR]

I have been using N165 in my new 1000yd barrel, but I was told this powder is not as temperature stable as H1000 which I have been using previously. Has anyone compared temperature sensitivity of these two similar powders? I was hoping to have something which will work with the same loads from 65-90 degrees so I don't need 2 different loads from cool of the first relay in the morning, to mid afternoon heat.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I have been using N165 in my new 1000yd barrel, but I was told this powder is not as temperature stable as H1000 which I have been using previously. Has anyone compared temperature sensitivity of these two similar powders? I was hoping to have something which will work with the same loads from 65-90 degrees so I don't need 2 different loads from cool of the first relay in the morning, to mid afternoon heat.

I've been told the same thing, but I have done testing and it doesn't appear to be affected by temperature. Usually when someone tells me that, I ask them what cartridge they used N165 in, they usually respond with something like "I have never used it, but I heard that from someone".

 

[swed6.5]

I used n165 in my long range 6.5, it always shot better with a hot load and would group the same after a hot barrel. You never want to leave a case sit in the hot chamber for a extended time. Hope this helps you.

 

[1KBR]

I have been using N165 in my new 1000yd barrel, but I was told this powder is not as temperature stable as H1000 which I have been using previously. Has anyone compared temperature sensitivity of these two similar powders? I was hoping to have something which will work with the same loads from 65-90 degrees so I don't need 2 different loads from cool of the first relay in the morning, to mid afternoon heat.

I've been told the same thing, but I have done testing and it doesn't appear to be affected by temperature. Usually when someone tells me that, I ask them what cartridge they used N165 in, they usually respond with something like "I have never used it, but I heard that from someone".

Erik. For me it is a 6.5x284. So you have tested it in different temps and it is similar to H1000 is it?

 

[Erik Cortina]

I have never used H1000, but N165 is very stable for me.

 

[expiper]

you guys are wayyy outa my league,but, I will share my bakwoods findings,,,I live and shoot in the eastern US (WV) where the temps usually dont go above 90* and frequently shoot in 40-60* weather and lots of rain,,,I like and use a lot of Vita-vori (500 series)and Aliant/Reloader powders(which are double base) with various cals.. from 22 to 30,,,,and see a diminishing degree of accuracy above 90* F,,,,if shooting in those hi (to me) temps I switch to Hodgdon single base extruded powders that fall in the same burning rate,,,,,I hope this makes sense to those of you who see and shoot in the same various conditions,,,,Roger

 

[Erik Cortina]

you guys are wayyy outa my league,but, I will share my bakwoods findings,,,I live and shoot in the eastern US (WV) where the temps usually dont go above 90* and frequently shoot in 40-60* weather and lots of rain,,,I like and use a lot of Vita-vori (500 series)and Aliant/Reloader powders(which are double base) with various cals.. from 22 to 30,,,,and see a diminishing degree of accuracy above 90* F,,,,if shooting in those hi (to me) temps I switch to Hodgdon single base extruded powders that fall in the same burning rate,,,,,I hope this makes sense to those of you who see and shoot in the same various conditions,,,,Roger

N165 is not a double base powder.

 

[expiper]

Eric,,,I was not specific enuff,,,,I know 165 is single base ,,,I shoot a lot of it,,,,my asnwer to the OP was single base powders seem to be better in hi temp situations,,,165 and 1000 are both single ,,,soooo,,,they both should be stable at elevated temps,,,,,my examples were to show that double base powders (no matter what brand) get skittiish when its hot,,,,,soorry for the confusion,,,,I sometimes try to give too much info and it seem to go unapreciated,,,,I will try to be less windy in the future,,,,haha,,Roger

 

[Erik Cortina]

Eric,,,I was not specific enuff,,,,I know 165 is single base ,,,I shoot a lot of it,,,,my asnwer to the OP was single base powders seem to be better in hi temp situations,,,165 and 1000 are both single ,,,soooo,,,they both should be stable at elevated temps,,,,,my examples were to show that double base powders (no matter what brand) get skittiish when its hot,,,,,soorry for the confusion,,,,I sometimes try to give too much info and it seem to go unapreciated,,,,I will try to be less windy in the future,,,,haha,,Roger

Got it!

The other upside to N165 is barrel life since N165 is a very cool burning powder.

 

[expiper]

Hi Eric,,,,I think your one of the few who get it,,,we dish out info we have been a lifetime acquireing and most if it goes un-noticed or miss understood,,,,Im glad there are shooters like you out there that really "DO" it and care enuff to try and help...Roger

 

[Erik Cortina]

Hi Eric,,,,I think your one of the few who get it,,,we dish out info we have been a lifetime acquireing and most if it goes un-noticed or miss understood,,,,Im glad there are shooters like you out there that really "DO" it and care enuff to try and help...Roger

Thanks Roger.

 

[Nvreloader]

Since I was curious about what was being dicussed in this post,
I played with QL to see the results, What if?

I took a load for the standard 284 case, loaded with an average weight bullet,
kept the same info in all 3 examples, and ran a series of "what if's",
using only the temp setting and changing the load data to BEST FIT the OBT for the barrel length.

Nothing else was changed, except the temp/load amounts,
Here are the results, see below info:

THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA, DO NOT USE AS LOAD DATA
FOR DISCUSSION ONLY

284 case-140gr N Part-OAL= 3.000”=SD/.335” = OBT/1.076 * =21.5”bbl
Powder = H1000 (3.1)-2975-562

Temp....WT.......OBT.....FPS...... PSI
20........64.7.....1.077...2899....55946
30........64.8.....1.075...2976....56864
40........64.5.....1.075...2979....56940
50........64.1.....1.076...2979....56903
60........63.7.....1.077...2979....56857
70........63.4.....1.076...2982....56952*
80........63.0.....1.077...2982....56928
90........62.7.....1.077...2983....57010
100......62.4.....1.075...2988....57314
110......62.1.....1.075...2990....57419
120......61.7.....1.076...2989....57400
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA, DO NOT USE AS LOAD DATA
FOR DISCUSSION ONLY

284 case-140gr N Part-OAL= 3.000”=SD/.335” = OBT/1.076 * =21.5”bbl
Powder = VV-165 (3.2)-2901-988

Temp....WT...... OBT......FPS......PSI
20........61.8.....1.076...2899....57523
30........61.5.....1.075...2902....57741
40........61.2.....1.075...2902....57738
50........60.8.....1.077...2899....57620
60........60.5.....1.076...2902....57841
70........60.2.....1.076...2901....57843*
80........59.9.....1.075...2903....58052
90........59.6.....1.076...2902....58043
100......59.3.....1.075...2904....58241
110......59.0.....1.075...2902....58232
120......58.6.....1.076...2899....58078
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA, DO NOT USE AS LOAD DATA
FOR DISCUSSION ONLY

284 case-140gr N Part-OAL= 3.000”=SD/.335” = OBT/1.076 * =21.5”bbl
Powder = MagPro (3.5)-2982-525

Temp...WT....... OBT......FPS......PSI
20........65.1.....1.075...2974....56782
30........64.7.....1.076...2974....56719
40........64.4.....1.076...2977....56794
50........64.0.....1.077...2977....56752
60........63.7.....1.075...2983....57051
70........63.4.....1.075...2985....57145*
80........63.0.....1.076...2985....57120
90........62.7.....1.076...2986....57201
100......62.3.....1.077...2986....57156
110......62.0.....1.076...2987....57265
120......61.6.....1.077...2986....57244

THIS IS NOT LOAD DATA, DO NOT USE AS LOAD DATA
FOR DISCUSSION ONLY

What do you see in these results??

Tia,
Don

 

[1KBR]

I didn't realize Quickload had a temperature change parameter. I don't trust that speeds were as close as quickload predicted, especially with MagPro. Quickload seems to show N165 as having no velocity climb with temp increase. I have seen 20+ fps increase from winter to spring, with ammo loaded together at the same time.

 

[DRNewcomb]

What do you see in these results??

Looks to me like QL's powder database must have a factor for "temp sensitivity". Seems like you could just look up that number and find out which powder is least sensitive.

 

[Nvreloader]

QL has a Temperature section where you can set the range from -40* to +122*, then run your load data for what ever combo of powder/bullet etc you are using..

Tia,
Don

 

[DRNewcomb]

QL has a Temperature section where you can set the range from -40* to +122*, then run your load data for what ever combo of powder/bullet etc you are using..

Right. My only point is that if different but similar powders produce different results at various temperatures, there must be a factor buried in the calculations and and in the powder database for the temperature sensitivity of each powder. Finding that factor could provide the OP with the answer to his question.

 

[Erik Cortina]

QL has a Temperature section where you can set the range from -40* to +122*, then run your load data for what ever combo of powder/bullet etc you are using..

Right. My only point is that if different but similar powders produce different results at various temperatures, there must be a factor buried in the calculations and and in the powder database for the temperature sensitivity of each powder. Finding that factor could provide the OP with the answer to his question.

No, QL simply changes the burning rate factor when you change temperature settings.