Largest E-Match on the Planet

[KenOath]

Great topic.... My personal opinion and it is just that, based on how much satisfaction I get from my personal Shotmarker is these cheaper units are gunna bridge the gap on the more expensive units very quickly..

 

[argh]

There is two costs. The build cost and the buy cost. Everyone wants to buy at the build cost which will never happen. Buy cheap then expect to have issues and don't complain. Pay top price then complain if there are issues. There are two types of ETs cheap and expensive. Your choice I use both own one. They have different applications and one can not do both.

Hi Bindi
Yes, its all about price point. All the targets that have been mentioned or inferred in this thread have their place as you have said, and in their respective intended use, they all provide the feedback to the shooter with a level of accuracy as to their original intended and designed purpose. I know you over in WA have had lots of issues with your ETargets. mainly with respect to maintenance that seem to have been fixed now.

To reiterate my previous analogy, for organized competition level target shooting, such as 600y bench rest or F Class shooting, you could buy a Savage 10FCP in 308, or alternatively at the other end of the scale you could get a rifle made up by a respectable smith on an action like a Borden or a Stolle, Bartlein or Kreiger barrel, custom made stock with parallel bag riders such as McMillan or Cerus (for examples only), maybe chamber it in 6mm dasher throated for 105VLDs, or in 7mm SAUM 180 hybrids.....

We know which one of those rifles in trained hands with good loads is going to perform better. There is nothing wrong with the savage, its a great rifle capable of good accuracy, suited for mid range hunting, some Practical rifle and PRS style comps. But if you are going to spend large amounts of money traveling to a comp you would want the best rifle, CUSTOM built to suit the style of shooting that you are doing.

THEN.. If I have spent big money on a custom rifle to be competitive, traveled long distance, spent money on ammo, fuel, accommodation, etc, I would hope that the range I am traveling to compete at is using a target system that is capable of delivering the type of accuracy and reliability comparable to the type of shooting that we are doing. Likewise if I was shooting for practice at my Farm (except I dont have a farm) then a more simple target system designed to be used by myself would be appropriate.

Does a few thousand dollars per target lane make a difference when shooters start to boycott the competitions at your range because your targets might not delivery the accuracy required for a competition? I know our club relies on money made from our prize meets to add funds to our clubs income - without that financial boost from entry fees we would have to increase our membership fees.

Food for thought

Adrian

 

[argh]

Great topic.... My personal opinion and it is just that, based on how much satisfaction I get from my personal Shotmarker is these cheaper units are gunna bridge the gap on the more expensive units very quickly..

I think your right Rushty
The level of accuracy of the in the box single units will get closer, and the added competition will bring the price of the an acoustic chamber target system down a bit. But you have to remember, both of these target systems are designed and built for a different use. It has been done to death on other threads and in the reports, but a target system with the sensors inside and enclosed acoustic chamber will always be more accurate than a target with externally placed sensors - apparently this accuracy difference is even more pronounced when you have shifting wind directions during the shoot on the face of the target.

 

[Bindi2]

Hi Bindi
Yes, its all about price point. All the targets that have been mentioned or inferred in this thread have their place as you have said, and in their respective intended use, they all provide the feedback to the shooter with a level of accuracy as to their original intended and designed purpose. I know you over in WA have had lots of issues with your ETargets. mainly with respect to maintenance that seem to have been fixed now.

To reiterate my previous analogy, for organized competition level target shooting, such as 600y bench rest or F Class shooting, you could buy a Savage 10FCP in 308, or alternatively at the other end of the scale you could get a rifle made up by a respectable smith on an action like a Borden or a Stolle, Bartlein or Kreiger barrel, custom made stock with parallel bag riders such as McMillan or Cerus (for examples only), maybe chamber it in 6mm dasher throated for 105VLDs, or in 7mm SAUM 180 hybrids.....

We know which one of those rifles in trained hands with good loads is going to perform better. There is nothing wrong with the savage, its a great rifle capable of good accuracy, suited for mid range hunting, some Practical rifle and PRS style comps. But if you are going to spend large amounts of money traveling to a comp you would want the best rifle, CUSTOM built to suit the style of shooting that you are doing.

THEN.. If I have spent big money on a custom rifle to be competitive, traveled long distance, spent money on ammo, fuel, accommodation, etc, I would hope that the range I am traveling to compete at is using a target system that is capable of delivering the type of accuracy and reliability comparable to the type of shooting that we are doing. Likewise if I was shooting for practice at my Farm (except I dont have a farm) then a more simple target system designed to be used by myself would be appropriate.

Does a few thousand dollars per target lane make a difference when shooters start to boycott the competitions at your range because your targets might not delivery the accuracy required for a competition? I know our club relies on money made from our prize meets to add funds to our clubs income - without that financial boost from entry fees we would have to increase our membership fees.

Food for thought

Adrian

Been there done all that. Every scenario and some others.
The big difference is we started at the top end of town with ETs and now know what the issues are. Starting at the other end the issues look normal.

 

[Zilla]

Good grief.

 

[MattPeetz]

Hmmm kinda odd that two that propose hexta’s type a book but yet can’t say what the units cost but yet their competitors can! Hmmm. Who needs lessons on marketing?

 

[argh]

Hi Matt
I assume you are talking about me in your post above?

I can tell you about my experience with electronic targets, but as stated have no association other than using them weekly how they work or their pricing for a new installation.

BUT, please tell me how, from another country away, I can tell you how much that system would cost in your country? I have also tried to explain to the business uneducated how pricing works for a system where you are not buying an off the shelf in the box system. I tried using some analogies I thought you might understand (comparing custom rifle to off the shelf), but I seem to have overestimated the target audience ability to comprehend.

Now, why am I posting? After seeing many posts over the years on eTargets on this forum, and the bashing by some members of the Hex Targets system for no apparent reason other than it appears that you think the local agent should sell them at a discount to you, I decided I might stick up for Rick.

Cheers
Adrian

 

[Zilla]

What was the cost for the ones you use?

 

[argh]

What was the cost for the ones you use?

Initially bought before I joined that club, so have no idea what the initial cost was. For a new target, the figures that are being thrown around are close, but in $AUS. (Convert at $0.66US to the $AU). As a large amount of the money is in the cabinetry of the target, made to pretty tight tolerances, costs would depend very much on where the targets are being made in the US, by who, and probably cost to get them to the range. If you had to tool up a carpentry builder each time in a new city to build the targets, I can imagine that would be a big cost also.... Plus you could also assume that there is some sort of licensing or fee paid per target back to the original developers.... so it would be pretty hard to convert $AU costs to $US.

But, as long as I can attempt to describe, you get what you pay for. Hex are very popular in Aus, and have been around to prove their reliability. The link that started this thread is to our National Championships, our governing body believe that they are accurate enough, and reliable enough to run a competition of that importance and scale on those targets. Another major range for example who have a different eTarget system, decided not to use their etargets for their state level comp and go back to manually pulled targets due to previous issues.

Just disappointed to see people bagging are very good system because the local supplier a) wont price match a off the shelf boxed item (and why would they), and b) wont list a recommended retail price. Again, why when there are so many variables for each installation?

Cheers
Adrian

 

[GeoffR]

Boy am I glad you showed up Adrian. George has someone else to pick on

Stand in the line Rick!

 

[GeoffR]

[snipped]
As a large amount of the money is in the cabinetry of the target, made to pretty tight tolerances, costs would depend very much on where the targets are being made in the US, by who, and probably cost to get them to the range. If you had to tool up a carpentry builder each time in a new city to build the targets, I can imagine that would be a big cost also.... [more snipped]
Cheers
Adrian

Not to mention the monitors and other paraphernalia supplied and required to make the system fit for competition events such as the National Championships that finished today!

Geoff.

 

[GSS]

Hi Matt
I assume you are talking about me in your post above?

I can tell you about my experience with electronic targets, but as stated have no association other than using them weekly how they work or their pricing for a new installation.

BUT, please tell me how, from another country away, I can tell you how much that system would cost in your country? I have also tried to explain to the business uneducated how pricing works for a system where you are not buying an off the shelf in the box system. I tried using some analogies I thought you might understand (comparing custom rifle to off the shelf),

but I seem to have overestimated the target audience ability to comprehend.

Now, why am I posting? After seeing many posts over the years on eTargets on this forum, and the bashing by some members of the Hex Targets system for no apparent reason other than it appears that you think the local agent should sell them at a discount to you,

I decided I might stick up for Rick.

Cheers
Adrian

Adrian,
For the record I have stated in this and another forum I frequent that I truly believe the HEX targets are the best available today.

I have shot on HEX targets and I have often referred to them as the Ferrari of E targets.

If money is no object for a club to buy Ferrari's for people to come pay a few bucks a match to shoot on that is awesome and I am happy for them.

If there were any ranges with HEX targets closer to me here in the US I would shoot on them more often. Rick wont reveal if hes has sold any other HEX targets in the US besides Reade PA and Bridgeville DE so we may never know where all the opportunities to shoot on HEX targets in the US are.

The only negative I have ever posted about Rick / HEX is Ricks habit of trash talking the manufacturers systems of the two affordable systems that have sold 1000's of units here in the US over the past year or so.

To me trash talking ones competition is in very poor taste and a sign of a desperate salesman trying to sell an unmarketable product.

Rick and I have had this conversation before and now in this thread he says "I like to pick on him".... LOL Talk about missing the point.

Now here you are....
As you say "sticking up for Rick" and insulting the person that didn't buy into your long winded self promoting over the top analogy.....

Those people and clubs here in the US that can't afford Ferrari's bought 1000's of F-250 pick up trucks that do what we need them to do just fine.

Most here have given up wasting keystrokes on Ricks threads / posts but,,
My best wishes to you and Rick.
Cheers, George

 

[GSS]

Boy am I glad you showed up Adrian. George has someone else to pick on

LOL

 

[GSS]

Because if they actually told the truth, nobody would buy them.
BUT, you will be paying around $8000+ a lane for it.

If I was able to convince my club trustees to write a check to HEX for what I was quoted from Rick to outfit my clubs range with HEX targets and then I found out you only paid an averaged out cost with all hardware required for around $8k US Dollars per firing point I would have felt robbed.

The quote I got/have was considerably higher than that.
No wonder I was told my pricing was special and was asked to not share the pricing with anyone.

All of the HEX competitors have complete and itemized parts cost clearly listed on their websites for all to see. If they are capable of doing it the superior people at HEX are certainly capable of doing it.

Ray Charles could see there is only one reason why HEX refuses to post itemized and system pricing on their website like all the others do.

Like Ferrari,
If I/we have to ask about price then I/we can't afford it.

Edited to Add:
Many here have also asked where in the US (besides the two well known and highly respected clubs that have them) has purchased HEX targets so more of us can try out the Ferrarri of ET's.

Unfortunately Rick refuses to answer that simple question as well.
Sad actually...

 

[MattPeetz]

Just disappointed to see people bagging are very good system because the local supplier a) wont price match a off the shelf boxed item (and why would they), and b) wont list a recommended retail price. Again, why when there are so many variables for each installation?

Cheers
Adrian[/QUOTE]

Where ever did i say they should price match or where has anyone ever said that???
You want to bag on people about missing the point. Well look in the mirror because you clearly missed the point.

 

[GSS]

To say nothing about reliability, "Take another shot" rules, or precision eh

Not to pick on you Rick,
But,,, Unprofessional cheap shot at competition #99 noted.

As I have written a number of times.

You have a great Product.
Too bad you tarnish the name of it with repeated cheap shots at your sales competitors / systems that are selling briskly here in the US. Sad

Live reporting and web stored strings is a nice feature that none of your competitors have...

Yet

 

[rardoin]

Hi Matt


BUT, please tell me how, from another country away, I can tell you how much that system would cost in your country? I have also tried to explain to the business uneducated how pricing works for a system where you are not buying an off the shelf in the box system. I tried using some analogies I thought you might understand (comparing custom rifle to off the shelf), but I seem to have overestimated the target audience ability to comprehend.

Adrian, thanks for the condescension. I would not expect you to be able provide an approximate cost for a set-up with HEXTA targets as you are correct in that any estimation you make could be grossly incorrect considering your distant location. However, Rick could provide a crude estimate, that no one would necessarily hold him to, that would enable a possibly interested party to get an idea of what a set-up would cost. This, I think, is the rub being conveyed by many prior posts. If Rick would be willing to give an approximate break down of the cost he could settle this in a single post...and possibly build good will that could sell more targets. I have shot matches on HEXTA targets as well as Shotmarkers (I also own a Shotmarker). There are features on the HEXTA that are superior to the Shotmarker but obviously come at a cost; Rick could at least reduce the mystery surrounding the pricing.

Gooday!

Robin

 

[rardoin]

Like Ferrari,
If I/we have to ask about price then I/we can't afford it.

Unlike Ferrari, when I put down my deposit I can spec out the car and know with great accuracy what it will cost me. When they give me the call to finalize all details I will then get very precise breakdown of the final cost for the vehicle when it arrives at the dealer. However, information is freely available as to the base costs of every common model...even some of the less common models. Not so with HEXTA targets. It seems that the lack of any pricing information is putting constraints on sales. Perhaps I am wrong....been there before.

Robin

 

[Warren Dean]

Wow!!

 

[XTR]