Largest E-Match on the Planet

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Click on

Hex Competitions

Click on the Match of the day.

Then on PRESENTATION Mode

30 HEXTA Match-Grade targets

 

[DR_2297]

Not even close to the largest on the planet. Sorry.

“Match Grade” is such a gimmick word.

 

[dolek]

Not even close to the largest on the planet. Sorry.

“Match Grade” is such a gimmick word.

What is the largest ? Second largest ?

 

[DR_2297]

What is the largest ? Second largest ?

I am not sure what the largest is but I will say that CMP routinely runs 40+ KTS etargets at their regional travel events and National Cup week @ Perry.

CMP’s Talledaga Marksmanship Park rifle range has 50 firing points, 3 yard lines for a total of 150 permanently installed KTS targets.

 

[dolek]

I am not sure what the largest is but I will say that CMP routinely runs 40+ KTS etargets at their regional travel events and National Cup week @ Perry.

CMP’s Talledaga Marksmanship Park rifle range has 50 firing points, 3 yard lines for a total of 150 permanently installed KTS targets.

Thanks,I was curious . Never really gave this much thought until I read this thread.

 

[DR_2297]

Thanks,I was curious . Never really gave this much thought until I read this thread.

There is a range in Tennessee that purchased 175 Shotmarkers......

 

[argh]

Thats some impressive numbers of electronic target on those ranges. 175 on one range! Wow. Some big ranges too.

Tell me, do the Shotmaker or the KTS have live results that you can view? or can only the shooter and the scorer, or even other people at the range, watch the results?

Do the KTS, Shotmakers and Silver Mountain have live updates of the scores and placings, shot by shot, so that if I cant make it to a match, I can sit in my office and view the results in real time? Or do you have to rely on waiting for someone to write up the results in chalk on the score board, or print out the results, then someone takes a blury photo of the printouts and posts it on facebook?

 

[GSS]

Thats some impressive numbers of electronic target on those ranges. 175 on one range! Wow. Some big ranges too.

Tell me, do the Shotmaker or the KTS have live results that you can view? or can only the shooter and the scorer, or even other people at the range, watch the results?

Do the KTS, Shotmakers and Silver Mountain have live updates of the scores and placings, shot by shot, so that if I cant make it to a match, I can sit in my office and view the results in real time? Or do you have to rely on waiting for someone to write up the results in chalk on the score board, or print out the results, then someone takes a blury photo of the printouts and posts it on facebook?

Interesting 1st post. I see your from Australia.
That is all you have in your profile but better than nothing except "argh".....

I get the feeling you know the answer to all those questions.

Those added features add around $9k per firing point. I bet you know that too...

George

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Do the KTS, Shotmakers and Silver Mountain have live updates of the scores and placings, shot by shot, so that if I cant make it to a match, I can sit in my office and view the results in real time? Or do you have to rely on waiting for someone to write up the results in chalk on the score board, or print out the results, then someone takes a blury photo of the printouts and posts it on facebook?

To say nothing about reliability, "Take another shot" rules, or precision eh

 

[DR_2297]

I do believe KTS has live feeds.

 

[argh]

I do believe KTS has live feeds.

By KTS, I believe you are talking about Kongsberg Targets? I have shot extensively on those targets at club and state competition level. I really have to say the lack of being able to add scores up, the scorer having to look over the shooter to look at the only monitor and read the scores, are some failry big downfalls of a "Smart" target system. I have also seen them fail miserably in windy conditions at the NSW State Championships, requiring the entire shooting line to be shut down several times during that competition.
To my knowledge, Kongsberg while an accurate system, have little software support, and if my reading is correct, have not been able to put in place a delay as the US have put into thier rule book. I know of no reference to their ability to have a live feed, or show live scores. Happy to find out different as I still shoot on those targets at different ranges.
Cheers
Adrian

 

[argh]

Interesting 1st post. I see your from Australia.
That is all you have in your profile but better than nothing except "argh".....

I get the feeling you know the answer to all those questions.

Those added features add around $9k per firing point. I bet you know that too...

George

Hi George,
Correct reading, I am from Australia. I shoot at my local club every weekend on Hex Systems targets, and at other ranges during comps on different styles of electronic targets. The last club I was a member at, before I had to relocate for work, shot Kongsberg targets, so I also have history and know those systems well.

I do actually know the answers to your question, and the difference is not $9,000 per target.
One system you pay for a the electrical components, and the software/IP. You have to build your own targets and attach the electronics to them, and then supply your own monitors. The other system you have enclosed acoustic chamber targets with all components built in and the monitors, software and online system provided, along with the IP. The difference is far less than $9,000 once you factor that in and work out what you are actually paying for. Having a professional built target that you KNOW is correctly setup and accurate is worth a lot of piece of mind,especially if you are planning on running competitions on them

As far as costs go if you are worried about the intial outlay, here is some examples for you: We run numerous hex targets at our club and since changing from manual targets, we are in a far better financial position than before, due to the use of electronic targets. The hidden savings are not part of the initial outlay costs that some people seem to be so obsessed with, especially on this forum.

Here are some benefits:
More enjoyment at the range for shooters without having to attend the butts to do marking of targets, especially relevant to older less mobile members,
OR
Lower costs if you are a club that pays for markers to pull your targets.
More shooters through per shooting day, more income in range fees,
Membership numbers had massive increase upon implementation of the Hex Targets, more members, more club fees, more income.
Shooters have far greater access to their current and historical results, and can see trends and start to analyse their results, and improve their shooting. Far easier than keeping log books with plot sheets (although I still keep log books),
As the target frames are far more robust, less maintenance and rebuilding of those frames. Frames are generally more sturdy and flex less in the wind also as an added benefit.
Removal of the need for paper centres, and patching stickers (lower costs),
An added benefit of the hex targets are that they do not use paper faces (like some other systems). The swappable aiming marks take far more shots than paper faces, and the system employed to place the aiming marks ensures that the optical centre aligns with the electronic centre (which some people feel that these two aligning is a downfall of e targets).
The hex systems history in shooting and research over the years has allowed them to have develop a system of repairing the super centres on the aiming marks with materials that can withstand a very large amount of shots without having to have the aiming marks replaced. We can easily have 8 to 10 shooters on a target at 500m and still have the rings clearly visible. Since changing from the old paper faces on the hex targets to the new system, we spend less money and less time on target repairs.

Online, real time competetions, with scores readily available to anyone is a nice added advantage. I do have to laugh everytime I see people in this day and age having to take photos of the printed out scores, then post them on facebook to see who is leading the comp at the end of each day.... we live in the 21 century......

So, its not all about the initial cost, and you need to compare apples with apples in so far as what you actually receive with the package when you buy them, a target in a box, or a fully installed system with alot of history and IP that will assist in keeping your targets running for a long time.

Cheers
Adrian

 

[GSS]

Hi George,
Correct reading, I am from Australia.
The hidden savings are not part of the initial outlay costs that some people seem to be so obsessed with, especially on this forum.

Cheers
Adrian

Adrian,
Thanks for the response but, You missed my point.

My statement was that I believed you knew the answers to the questions that you posted in your 1st post on this forum.
( your follow up response 100% verified that I was correct )

In your statement I quoted above it seems you also know a lot about what is in this forum for someone that just joined here on May 29 2019 per your profile.

Color me suspicious that you are a Hex Sales person troll that was directed here and to this thread by a well know HEX Salesman.

That is fine, as far as I know all are welcome here to politely discuss common interests. It is nice though when people are up front if they have a special interest. Especially if their profile leaves them basically anonymous..

FYI
"Complete" Solo and ShotMarker are around $1000 per firing point with 2 tablets included.

Adrian, Here is a simple / straight forward question for you.
How much per firing point would it cost a new club in Australia today to buy say 15 firing points worth of HEX target systems with two tablets?

Cheers,
George

 

[argh]

George
I think you mistake me for someone else. I am not a troll, I am not a salesperson for Hex Systems, I resent that implication, and I actually find it very offensive that you would imply that, including the implications that being associated with Hex Systems is in some way a negative. I merely shoot on them as I have shot on other electronics targets and manual targets over the years, and I can easily see what you are buying when you buy a target system.

As for you question to ME. I have no idea how much they Hex Systems cost per target for a new system. I do know what an additional target costs, as our club has added several since I have been a member, but that is commercial in confidence, and I am sure that you as a smart person you would understand this. You are not buying an off the shelf retail system, so you do not get an off the shelf Recommended Retail Price....

George, as for your investigative work on how much I know about this forum, I can tell you that as a competitive long range target shooter, I have read this forum and many of the posts over the years - yes years, not months, not days, not hours.... and not just since the 29 May when I actually decided to create a log in. I dare say that most competitive shooters from around the world probably know about this forum.

I will however politely log back in tomorrow awaiting your response on the troll comments, and why I should not take offense.

Regards
Adrian

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Boy am I glad you showed up Adrian. George has someone else to pick on

 

[Rick Ratzlaff]

Bridgeville Rifle in Real Time right now. 71 shooters

 

[TrxR]

Why is it that i cannot find a single idea on the cost of a HEXTA target?

 

[argh]

Why is it that i cannot find a single idea on the cost of a HEXTA target?

Let me explain to you in some other real world examples of pricing of different types of products and services.

If I was selling a product off the shelf, such as a factory rifle (we can all relate to that), where a consumer can purchase the product, and have it shipped to them in a box, and thats the end of the transaction (other than some warranty and after sales service), then you could readily put a retail price sticker on that product as it does not vary depending on who is buying that product and what their individual needs are. The rifle is built to factory specifications - no customisation, everyone gets the same rifle in a box.

I on the other had for example, am a Civil Engineer, I design roads/carparks/stormwater systems/earthworks. I sell my products and services which include designs, design plans, and my IP. I do not advertise how much my services are, or the cost per design plan produced on the web site of the company I work for. This pricing is commercial in confidence information, and also lets other competitors know what price they have to beat. A lot of what I sell when I give people a price for doing work for them is my IP, my "intellectual property", my history and experience gained over 30 years as a practicing engineer, my knowledge in what works, what is going to be the best solution for minimising the costs of your development both during construction and during ongoing operation in the years that follow.

If we relate that same example to a custom rifle builder (which again I hope you can relate to), he/she will typically not put a retail price sticker on a build of a new F-Class rifle. They will listen to what each purchaser wants, tailor the rifle, the stock/barrel/action/trigger/mounts/etc to the individual needs and circumstances. You will pay for the components, plus you will pay for the gunsmiths experience. If you go to a gunsmith who has years of experience, has tested all the different actions and barrels out over the years, keeps on top of current trends in barrel manufacturers, current trends in what cartridges are currently winning at comps, knows what throat dimensions are required on a chamber depending on what specific projectiles you are going to use, then you are going to pay a lot more for that rifle because you are buying that Smiths IP at the same time as the actual product.
If you buy from gunsmith "Bubba", who brought his first lathe last year, supplies trued rem actions from PTG (cause he read on the interwebs that they are the best ) puts it in a Boyds tactical stock (cause he can get the cheap and they dont need any action inletting and are easy to bed), chambers your new FTR rifle with a standard Win 308 reamer as he has never heard about the length of throat needed to run 200.20x's......

Now to answer your original question, if you are selling more than an off the shelf target in a box system, that is tailored to each individual site to suit their specific needs, why would you put the price on your web site?

The above is my opinion in a commercial world of products and services supply.

Adrian

 

[MattPeetz]

Why is it that i cannot find a single idea on the cost of a HEXTA target?

Because if they actually told the truth, nobody would buy them.
BUT, you will be paying around $8000+ a lane for it.

 

[Bindi2]

There is two costs. The build cost and the buy cost. Everyone wants to buy at the build cost which will never happen. Buy cheap then expect to have issues and don't complain. Pay top price then complain if there are issues. There are two types of ETs cheap and expensive. Your choice I use both own one. They have different applications and one can not do both.