Lapua test facility results

[Appalachian]

Would anyone care to comment on the usefulness of the DHH measurement that the system produces?

It had little influence on my decisions about which lot to buy. I do think that a smaller DHH has to be good for disciplines that shoot single shots and move from bull to bull.

 

[Emmett Dibble]

where do I go from here? Is this typical? Are the test facilities just picked over for good lots?

That… the best choice of poor performing lots isn’t exactly a choice is it?

 

[VLNBYR]

Almost every lot ever made will shoot good in somebody's rifle.

 

[VLNBYR]

The ammo I shot in ARA during the 2021 season has an interesting story. The shipment had been in for some time before I tested and bought a case. There were problems with my order and it was a month before I got my order and could actually shoot it. There were many testers of that lot before me and many after but when I ordered the rest of that lot it was ALL STILL THERE. Not one other tester had picked that lot as the best in their rifle. I used that lot to finish 2nd in the UL A-Line, shoot a pair of ARA outdoor 2500's, a indoor PSL 2500, and win over 50 Hall of Fame points.

 

[Bobr]

Would anyone care to comment on the usefulness of the DHH measurement that the system produces?

Dumb question what is DHH

 

[shortine]

Dumb question what is DHH

It's distance form hit to hit on consecutive shots. I belive Lapua shows largest, smallest, and average of all. It's a good metric for shooters changing from bull to bull, as Appalachian said. It would be nice to know which consecutive shots have the smallest distance and which are largest; the first two shots in a ten shot group, or the last two, as I imagine ten shot groups are fired rapidly, and the barrel heats, then cools for a bit when changing lots.

I think they are measured center to center.

Gerry

 

[Williwaw]

I believe the term is Distance Hit to Hit. No doubt someone with a better memory will speak up if that is far off. As I understand it that number is the distance in mm from the POI of the last shot to the previous.

I have spent some time trying to decide how relevant it is and how to use it. My simplistic take on the POI distribution would be something round with a normal/gaussian distribution of offsets. If that is the case I think there would be no point in tracking DHH.

But the boys and girls at the testing centers are much smarter than I so why is it in the system. Every time I shoot I will have bulls where two or three rounds will jump down the same hole ... say .125 inches from center at 4 oclock, the angle doesn't matter. That is quite the statistical improbability to be a regular observation if I am truly shooting a centered,normally distributed group. Maybe I've mucked up and my rifle just drilled three into the same hole exactly where its aimed. Others may reply and tell me I'm the problem.

But if I'm not the problem one possible explanation is that the barrel and/or chamber condition is evolving as more rounds are fired and there will be a pattern to the POI shift that mean the DHH isn't just a plain statistical average. If that theory holds water then DHH could be useful in assessing results and choosing lots.

I just looked over and saw todays target. Not pretty but it was -22C. I have to shoot warmers rather than sighters. Whenever I stop to load mags it takes 4 or 5 before things settle again. When 'warm' it was shooting centered, 5 rds per bull, .15 to .35 groups. When cold it would put 2 in one whole and three in another, 1/2 an inch apart, none in the x ring.

I know that only a fool would be caught laying in the snow trying to hit small targets in -22C degrees but that is what I do. The point is that the POI 'groups' in patterns that are quite statistically improbable.

Gerry posted while I was composing this. Thanks for the confirmation sir.

 

[John1945]

I was up there two years ago, been up this year too, and tested my two 2500x rifles and a friends Hall I think. I got two lots, one for each rifle that shot pretty good. My friends rifle shot one lot at 10mm while one of mine showed just over 14 mm for that lot. At the last minute I had Luke add a 1/2 case of my friends lot. No reason, just wanted it. That lot has been a killer for me. the others were very good but not quite like that lot. I managed a 2500-21x' with that lot at the Indoor Nationals. Go figure. But it only likes colder temps.
test centers are the only thing we have now but it's not the holy grail either. you don't know until you try it in real life.

 

[Blackwatch]

Thanks for all the details shared - very informative

 

[John1945]

Almost every lot ever made will shoot good in somebody's rifle.

Does that mean I need more rifles?

 

[linekin]

Does that mean I need more rifles?

No, just an assortment of barrels. Buy a case, then find the barrel it shoots best. Cheaper than chasing ammo
Keith

 

[John1945]

No, just an assortment of barrels. Buy a case, then find the barrel it shoots best. Cheaper than chasing ammo
Keith

Funny, I just got done doing that. Now have two actions with two barrels with tuners on all for each action for that very reason. I still have one blank left, hmmmmmm. Trick is keeping track of it all now.

 

[linebaugh]

No, just an assortment of barrels. Buy a case, then find the barrel it shoots best. Cheaper than chasing ammo
Keith

That is actually what I did.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Funny, I just got done doing that. Now have two actions with two barrels with tuners on all for each action for that very reason. I still have one blank left, hmmmmmm. Trick is keeping track of it all now.

Get a label maker then no problem with knowing where it goes

Lee

 

[Anschutz]

-Although I’ve never met Morgan or Kevin, thanks for your input.
-Thanks to Lapua for limiting a one case purchase every four months.
-Three of us guys drove to the Mesa Test Facility last month and all of us live near Jackson, Mississippi.
-Two of us tested: Mark - 40X, Me - 2013 purchased brand new eleven years ago. Added a bloop tube years ago, replaced the trigger shoe, sold the aluminum stock and replaced with Sitman Stock. No other changes. Yes, it‘s finicky. At Mesa, I intended only to test Midas, but also tested CX, X-Act. As usual, Midas performed the best at both distances and just under an inch at 100 meters. I will test again when it warms up, will try to tweak with the tuner, and I anticipate it will perform as good or even better but not off a bench unless a buddy that competes from bench shoots some groups. Yes, the test at Mesa was done with tuner and irons on front. There are no magic lots, etc.
-I would like to know from Morgan if you used the ammo from the Texas Test Facility at 100 yards/meters.

Thanks
Odie Redmond

 

[mgdietrich]

-Although I’ve never met Morgan or Kevin, thanks for your input.
-Thanks to Lapua for limiting a one case purchase every four months.
-Three of us guys drove to the Mesa Test Facility last month and all of us live near Jackson, Mississippi.
-Two of us tested: Mark - 40X, Me - 2013 purchased brand new eleven years ago. Added a bloop tube years ago, replaced the trigger shoe, sold the aluminum stock and replaced with Sitman Stock. No other changes. Yes, it‘s finicky. At Mesa, I intended only to test Midas, but also tested CX, X-Act. As usual, Midas performed the best at both distances and just under an inch at 100 meters. I will test again when it warms up, will try to tweak with the tuner, and I anticipate it will perform as good or even better but not off a bench unless a buddy that competes from bench shoots some groups. Yes, the test at Mesa was done with tuner and irons on front. There are no magic lots, etc.
-I would like to know from Morgan if you used the ammo from the Texas Test Facility at 100 yards/meters.

Thanks
Odie Redmond

Eley only test at 50m, but all the ammo I have bought that tested well at 50m has been good to great at 100.

 

[SST2500]

Guys, I have been shooting Midas Plus for a couple of years in both ARA and what we call F-Minus (100 yds./1" 10 Ring-.5" X Ring) and it has done really well. Since Lapua Midas Plus has been almost impossible to get lately, I decided to take my rifle (2500X) to the Eley test center in Winters, Texas. I made an appointment and they weren't really that backed up. I posted my results on here not long ago. I took my best box of Midas Plus as a comparison to their Lots of ammo. They didn't beat the Midas Plus but they had ammo that shot so close to it that I bought two cases. You're right, they only have a 50 Yd. test tunnel but I shot the new Eley ammo in an F-Minus match about a week after the testing and it won the match at 100 yds. Last target was a clean 150 (15 shots in a 1" 10 ring at 100 yds.) in the West Texas winds. The gist of this long post is exactly what was referred to earlier. You have to have a rifle that shoots very well to begin with. No one would take a stock 10-22 to the test facility and expect it to shoot 10mm 50 yd. groups so don't expect some magic lot of ammo to instantly make your rifle shoot better. A great rifle will shoot well with almost any premium .22 ammo. Lot testing just gets that last mm or two out of it. Just my thoughts.

 

[NV_Dmax]

I’m going to dredge this up post up from the bottom of the pond as I don’t think many people track or pay attention to the affects of temperature/seasonal influences on rimfire.

I tested today at the Mesa facility and brought my 2 samples of EXact with me. The first lot number is my 65-85 degree ammo and if flat out hammers at warmer temps. The second lot is my cold weather ammo. It was cold and rainy in Mesa and it played out like I expected it to. BTW, nothing in stock came close to my 2nd sample lot including the EXact they have in stock. I did order some Midas + that was around 12mm at 50m.