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Lapua test facility results

So I just received results from lapua test facility. The best groups with center x were 18-21mm at 50m and 32mm at 100m. I’m very underwhelmed with these results. The rifle is a 2013 with kreiger barrel. I’m shooting smallbore prone conventional and metric matches. By my estimation, these groups are barely cleaning targets.
where do I go from here? Is this typical? Are the test facilities just picked over for good lots?
any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I’m new to this game but not new to prone shooting so I kinda had higher expectations.
thanks,
blake makison
 
Yes they told me to ship it with tuner and front sight just as I would shoot it.
Problem with that is the rifle is not tested like you shoot it so results will vary.
in 2019 I went to the Mesa center and brought with me a platform I made so my rifles could be tested just like they are shot. results were very good with 11mm @ 50m and 20.88mm @100m being the best with CX even a factory 1413 Anschutz produced a 11.88mm @ 50M
IMO results would have been even better had I been able to shoot the rifles and made sure RTB was dead-on for each shot.
as you can see in the pictures, we had to accept that the rifle would be moved a little for each shot. the Falcon only produced a 11.68mm @ 50M but at home shot off the bench same lot it produced a 9.22mm 20-shot group because I was able to ensure RTB

If I were to send a rifle, I would have it tested bare barrel and look for the best consistent shooting lot that didn't have any fliers. as I know I can tune with a consistent lot. I know this as a fact same Falcon and barrel was tested with the barrel clamped in the vise in 2016 and produced a 12.14mm @ 50M and 18.58mm @ 100m that was and is the best 100yd. lot I have tested. only 3 cases were made, and I bought all they had nearly 2-3/4 cases. now it is different but back then you could buy what they had.

Lee
 

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The groups are definitely larger than needed for prone. Did they test any Midas+? How did your test control lot perform?

Mesa or Marengo facility?

Did they test the action in the stock or clamped in the vice?
 
Problem with that is the rifle is not tested like you shoot it so results will vary.
in 2019 I went to the Mesa center and brought with me a platform I made so my rifles could be tested just like they are shot. results were very good with 11mm @ 50m and 20.88mm @100m being the best with CX even a factory 1413 Anschutz produced a 11.88mm @ 50M
IMO results would have been even better had I been able to shoot the rifles and made sure RTB was dead-on for each shot.
as you can see in the pictures, we had to accept that the rifle would be moved a little for each shot. the Falcon only produced a 11.68mm @ 50M but at home shot off the bench same lot it produced a 9.22mm 20-shot group because I was able to ensure RTB

If I were to send a rifle, I would have it tested bare barrel and look for the best consistent shooting lot that didn't have any fliers. as I know I can tune with a consistent lot. I know this as a fact same Falcon and barrel was tested with the barrel clamped in the vise in 2016 and produced a 12.14mm @ 50M and 18.58mm @ 100m that was and is the best 100yd. lot I have tested. only 3 cases were made, and I bought all they had nearly 2-3/4 cases. now it is different but back then you could buy what they had.

Lee

Lee, I'd seen you post this several times over the years & have always been curious if any of the rifles were tested in both their fixture & your setup. If I remember correctly, you left your setup in Mesa for others to use?
Keith
 
So I just received results from lapua test facility. The best groups with center x were 18-21mm at 50m and 32mm at 100m. I’m very underwhelmed with these results. The rifle is a 2013 with kreiger barrel. I’m shooting smallbore prone conventional and metric matches. By my estimation, these groups are barely cleaning targets.
where do I go from here? Is this typical? Are the test facilities just picked over for good lots?
any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I’m new to this game but not new to prone shooting so I kinda had higher expectations.
thanks,
blake makison

Good morning Blake:

I have put together and tested more rifles than I can remember, so this is based on my experience only (and I mean no offense in the following comments).

I think people think that there is some "magic lot" out there that will produce world class results in any barreled action - but that just isn't true. If your rifle is not assembled correctly, or machined correctly from a truly competent gunsmith, there will always be limitations. You will still see accuracy variations lot to lot, but you will never see the consistency you will see when everything is done right. Lot testing is a mechanism of fine tuning - if your rig isn't capable of great baseline accuracy to begin with, you will never find that world class lot we are all looking for.

And again, I mean no offense (to you or the smith who assembled your rifle).

I have competed with, tested and tuned the 2000 series action for my entire career, and had two of the first actions in the country. They are highly problematic, and difficult to get to shoot really well. There are so many variables in setting them up that you can find yourself chasing your tail (manipulating one variable only to find something else changed). The fit of the tennon to the action is critical, so is the clamping screw torque used to lock the two together. Bedding is also problematic - the clamping corner moves with any small variation in tennon diameter. These are just naming a few of the considerations. You can get these actions to shoot really well - but if you do, please take my advice and leave it alone until that barrel is completely gone.

And as others have mentioned, the test facilities test your barreled action in an environment that is completely removed from the variables encountered in real world use (the stock and your body alone are a completely different recoil absorption system), among many others. The testing is still valuable, it is exceptional at finding the best lot of those tested during a session - but is not IMHO useful comparing the results to actual prone position practice. Once you have identified the best lot in a test center, the work for you really begins. You should expect to retest and tune the rifle assembled, and more testing in position, and I think you will find the lot performs better in position than your test results may indicate. It also takes a mountain of practice to learn a specific lots tendencies - how it performs in the wind, what cleaning cycles will maintain peak accuracy etc.

I hope this helps, sorry for the lengthy post,

kev
 
In a roundabout way those poor results could be the best outcome possible. It is highly unlikely every lot of ammo tested was substandard so the logical conclusion is that your rifle is substandard. Going forward it indicates you need to focus less on ammo and more on rifle.
 
Lee, I'd seen you post this several times over the years & have always been curious if any of the rifles were tested in both their fixture & your setup. If I remember correctly, you left your setup in Mesa for others to use?
Keith
Hi Keith, in 2016 my 1411 was shot in their fixture at that time they allowed the vise to recoil best lot did 15.38mm @50m this was with the same lot that did 12.14mm in the Falcon. again, back at home off the bench the lot did a 7.56mm 10-shot @50yds.

The results I got was the reason why I came up with the platform to test with a rest to try and replicate the same way I would test at home. results were very good but not the same as actually off the bench.
as for the platform I made it should be still there at Mesa.
Now anyone reading this should understand I am not faulting Lapua and how they test rifles but rather pointing out why test results may be disappointing and to understand it is in no way the quality of the ammo lots. the recent Indoor ARA nationals will bear truth to this. less than favorable testing results is the reaction of one's rifle and the available method used to test. as they say it is what it is.

Lee
 

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So I just received results from lapua test facility. The best groups with center x were 18-21mm at 50m and 32mm at 100m. I’m very underwhelmed with these results. The rifle is a 2013 with kreiger barrel. I’m shooting smallbore prone conventional and metric matches. By my estimation, these groups are barely cleaning targets.
where do I go from here? Is this typical? Are the test facilities just picked over for good lots?
As pointed out by Kevin Nevius, the 2013 is not necessarily an action that lends itself to easy, straightforward barrel changes. It's possible there is a contributing "rifle" factor involved in ammo performance.

Furthermore, it's no secret that Lapua's testing facilities have been very busy. As a result, they may not have available every day or week as many testing lots as at other times. It is possible that there were too few lots to test to find one that performed well. Did you test only CX? How many lots were compared?
 
Those are not great results, but without a baseline ammo to compare to you are kind of in the dark.

I have tested at eley 3 times, sending the barreled action there. 2 of the 3 times, the results were big groups. However, they were relative and still showed what ammo available at the time was best. The ammo I purchased was good, and two of the 3 lots have been excellent.

Kevin knows the 2013 better than anyone, the majority of people who have shot them really well for a long time either left it alone it’s life or the AMU where they had a group of smiths that could always be working to improve the rifle.

I have found, out of the shoulder results will give smaller groups than the testing system. But the testing system is consistent lot to lot to help find the best ammo at the time.
 
So I just received results from lapua test facility. The best groups with center x were 18-21mm at 50m and 32mm at 100m. I’m very underwhelmed with these results. The rifle is a 2013 with kreiger barrel. I’m shooting smallbore prone conventional and metric matches. By my estimation, these groups are barely cleaning targets.
where do I go from here? Is this typical? Are the test facilities just picked over for good lots?
any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I’m new to this game but not new to prone shooting so I kinda had higher expectations.
thanks,
blake makison
I’ve taken a couple stock CZ’s to Marengo and that’s what they usually shoot.D2DC428C-341D-4AF9-ACF6-6C76FE899BD6.jpg
 
In late February '21 I took my 1413 w/factory barrel to Lapua's Marengo, OH facility for lot testing. We tested 16 lots of CenterX and 5 lots of Midas+. The rifle was tested "in-the-wood", without a tuner. Below are the results of the best lot we found (which I purchased). This lot truly did standout in comparison to the rest (including Midas+), it has shot "cleans" at 100 yds., outside on a 1" 10-ring target, 10-shots off a bench.

1670595811160.png
 
There have been a number of these "failure" threads about test center results. Every one of them is actually a failure of the individual to accept the results or a failure to understand what the test center actually does. They offer to test your rifle and sell you ammo and they do this 100% of the time.
 
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There have been a number of these "failure" threads about test center results. Every one of them is actually a failure of the individual the accept the results or a failure to understand what the test center actually does. They offer to test your rifle and sell you ammo and they do this 100% of the time.
I agree completely with this statement. Over the last months I have thought a lot about my experience and have come to the conclusion, that my expectations were unrealistic. I was looking for that "magic lot" and ultimately I don't believe there is such a thing. Instead we found a lot that shot consistantly, and my rifle shot it reasonably well.
 

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