Lapua Primer Pocket Tension??

[sigma2chi]

I'm a novice to reloading but have been at it for about a year. I use Lapua brass (.308) Fed 210 LR primers. I am noticing that the primer pockets seem to be losing their tension or grip on the primer and in a lot of them but not all seem to progressively get more and more open. The primer seems to just slip right in on some. I use a Sinclair single primer seater, the nice one.

Is this just normal wear and tear on a primer pocket? I haven't had any reliability or shooting issues yet. Just getting concerned at how easy it is to slide some primers in now compared to others. I'm noticing this on probably my 4th or 5th firing on some pieces of brass. No pressure issues either with my loads to cause it that I can see.

Is there a way to address this and tighten these pockets back up? Or do I even need to worry about it?

 

[XTR]

OK, I'm laughing at my computer screen right now, sorry.

You're loading hot, like F-TR hot. This is how we all lose our brass. From what I read on the interwebz most F class shooters are getting 6 to maybe 12 loads out of cases. There is nothing that you can do to return the brass, eventually you'll get leakage or blown primers. Doing load development with powder and bullet combinations for which there is no data (like 215s in a 308) I've ruined brass with one shot, then you know you are too hot and need to come down, and I've got brass on it's 5th reloading, but I don't thing that it will last to seven. This is also why I run Winchester and not Lapua for my F-TR rigs. Lapua is prettier, costs 2x as much, doesn't last much longer, and I've never been able to tell the difference on the target.

There are a ton of threads discussing this. Guess, here... 185 class bullets over about 45 grains of Varget?

 

[sigma2chi]

OK, I'm laughing at my computer screen right now, sorry.

You're loading hot, like F-TR hot. This is how we all lose our brass. From what I read on the interwebz most F class shooters are getting 6 to maybe 12 loads out of cases. There is nothing that you can do to return the brass, eventually you'll get leakage or blown primers. Doing load development with powder and bullet combinations for which there is no data (like 215s in a 308) I've ruined brass with one shot, then you know you are too hot and need to come down, and I've got brass on it's 5th reloading, but I don't thing that it will last to seven. This is also why I run Winchester and not Lapua for my F-TR rigs. Lapua is prettier, costs 2x as much, doesn't last much longer, and I've never been able to tell the difference on the target.

There are a ton of threads discussing this. Guess, here... 185 class bullets over about 45 grains of Varget?

I'm running hot even if I'm way below the published max. I'm shooting 175 gr Bergers with H4895. Max published is 42.7 and I'm running 42.4 ..........

 

[LHSmith]

There are a ton of threads discussing this. Guess, here... 185 class bullets over about 45 grains of Varget?




I'm running hot even if I'm way below the published max. I'm shooting 175 gr Bergers with H4895. Max published is 42.7 and I'm running 42.4 ..........

You consider 0.3 grains "way below"?? Seriously?

 

[LHSmith]

No pressure issues either with my loads to cause it that I can see.

My advice is to get a reloading manual and read it.....loose primer pockets IS one of the signs of high pressure.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

There are a number of factors that affect pressure. For example, Lapua brass takes less powder than Winchester to make the same velocity and pressure.

If you are using Hodgdon's data, it was developed with Winchester brass, a jumped bullet and a COAL of 2.800. Change anything and the pressure changes.

Hope this helps.

 

[KevinThomas]

sigma2chi,

We normally expect to see around ten firings on our cases, given normal reloading practices that don't excessively work the brass, and loads that are within normal pressure limits for the cartridge involved. As LHSmith has advised, loosened or expanded primer pockets are a definite sign that you're running some very warm loads. I'd suggest backing them down a bit, which will prolong the life of the cases. On the other hand, I realize that many are looking for top end performance, and that means pushing a cartridge for all it's worth.

There's an old quip about speed costing money, and just how fast do you want to go? This is a pretty good illustration of that point.

 

[aj300mag]

No pressure issues either with my loads to cause it that I can see.

My advice is to get a reloading manual and read it.....loose primer pockets IS one of the signs of high pressure.

This ^ ^ ^ ^

OP is running pressures north of 70k psi...

 

[sigma2chi]

I have a Lee manual that I've read cover to x cover. What does the Laura manual say is the max for .308 175 gr Berger OTM with H4895????

 

[amlevin]

This is also why I run Winchester and not Lapua for my F-TR rigs. Lapua is prettier, costs 2x as much, doesn't last much longer, and I've never been able to tell the difference on the target.

Twice as much for Lapua than Winchester? Really?

I buy my Lapua .308 brass for $72 per 100. Same place sells the Winchester at $35 per 50. Seems like the Lapua is a whole $2 more per 100.

I like Winchester but my Lapua brass goes almost twice as long as the Winchester before the primer pockets loosen up. My loads are all up near or at published max so I'm not exactly babying it.

My experience is that Lapua cases stay straighter when sized and when annealed show more even heat lines than the Winchester. Both could be a sign of more uniform case wall thickness.

 

[spclark]

Is there a way to address this and tighten these pockets back up? Or do I even need to worry about it?

There have been a few attempts over the years to devise ways to 'reclaim' stretched case heads but to my knowledge none have enjoyed much success.

What I have found helps quite nicely is to back off from normal competition loads with the first couple of firings. The idea is brass work-hardens with use & this initial reduction in charge allows the case heads to stiffen up while not stretching them much if any, all the better then to withstand full-power loads used later on.

My practice is to load new brass for use at 600 yards with loads reduced (but still at an accuracy node) from those used at 1,000.

As for worrying about it? Depends on how deep your pockets are I suppose (good brass isn't cheap) and how you prefer to treat your hardware. Loose primers are bad in any rifle when gas leaks etch your bolt (any action) or fall out & jam your trigger during cycling (gas guns).

If you can afford to shoot as much as you want to whilst using good brass just once or twice, you're among the 1% who can I suppose.

 

[finnaddict]

Try uniforming the primer pockets. Tension will be the same then.

 

[TimP]

Uniforming the primer pockets will only uniform the seating depth. It will do nothing to tighten a loose primer pocket.

 

[XTR]

This is also why I run Winchester and not Lapua for my F-TR rigs. Lapua is prettier, costs 2x as much, doesn't last much longer, and I've never been able to tell the difference on the target.

Twice as much for Lapua than Winchester? Really?

I buy my Lapua .308 brass for $72 per 100. Same place sells the Winchester at $35 per 50. Seems like the Lapua is a whole $2 more per 100.

I like Winchester but my Lapua brass goes almost twice as long as the Winchester before the primer pockets loosen up. My loads are all up near or at published max so I'm not exactly babying it.

My experience is that Lapua cases stay straighter when sized and when annealed show more even heat lines than the Winchester. Both could be a sign of more uniform case wall thickness.

You do it your way I do it mine, the OP doesn't need a WW vs Lapua discussion in here; however, I buy my WW cases 1000 at a time from Midway for $375 or so. I run well over anything published, I don't expect more than six loadings from my brass, if I get more it's bonus. So yea, lapua does cost 2x. I've currently got 2000 cases in my rotation. (I believe 500 are unopened bags)

 

[finnaddict]

Uniforming the primer pockets will only uniform the seating depth. It will do nothing to tighten a loose primer pocket.

Strange. . Do not seem to have that issue. Seating force has stayed the same and this current batch is on 21 firings. Guess I'm lucky with this lot of Lapua brass.

 

[johara1]

I have found some primer pockets loose in new Lapua brass and what starts loose stays loose. They have never get any looser, but it is not what i expected from Lapua. Now that being said, the brass with annealing ever time has lasted near or at 100 firings over the last three years and will continue to be used. This is the Blue Box Brass in 6BR. reformed to a Dasher.
So when i see where it doesn't last it is you as a reloader causing it,not the Brass. Over loading, sizing or what ever has done it....... jim

 

[sigma2chi]

Can anyone that has a Lapua loading manual tell me what the max powder charge for H4895 and a 175gr. .308 rd is??

 

[Panzer22]

They don't list it. The closest powder they have for it is N135, and they don't list that either with a 175.

Load data is a guide not a set in stone absolute. You have to see what your barrel does. Even if its "just like mine" it isn't. Ill tell you all day what I run, that's me my stuff my barrel. You may or may not have similar results. I have a friend that cannot get to 43.0 of Varget with a 175 in his rifle without very obvious pressure signs. I can go to 45.0 and see none in one rifle, and the same load in another rifle it's starting to show the signs.
What velocity? What barrel? Length? Chamber? Headspace? how you suzes it to that headspace? It all makes a difference. Some big some small, but they can add up. M&M's are pretty small and one or two is great, but dumping a whole bag in your mouth doesn't work. Data is just a hey we did this and got this look at that and while 95% of the time Hodgon's "max" load is far from it in many rifles, the 5% that its beyond for some rifles is still there, and a fact of life. People say work up, start low, they mean 1-3 grains, because they understand the known unknown of your equipment vs theirs. Be patient, work up from 40.0 until it shoots, check your speed, don't assume the book is right. Different books have different max loads for that combo with all the powders. Because they all had different equipment they tested with, as do you. So start low, work up, take notes and experience later on will help speed up your load development.

 

[XTR]

Can anyone that has a Lapua loading manual tell me what the max powder charge for H4895 and a 175gr. .308 rd is??

You really should do an OCW test and find out where your rifle likes it. Start 1.5 grains lower than the load you've been using, and work up from there in 0.3 grain increments to your current load. Your targets should tell you where your rifle likes it.

Search OCW test on Google, you'll find it in the first hit

 

[finnaddict]

Can anyone that has a Lapua loading manual tell me what the max powder charge for H4895 and a 175gr. .308 rd is??

Lapua does not have H4895 in their loading manuals. Only vihta vuori powders.