Ladder Test With or Without Tuner

[Curmudgeon]

I am beginning the testing of new barrel. I will shoot a ladder test at 300 yards
and wonder if I should shoot with tuner brake installed? Thanks

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I say yes, it needs to be there, and it needs to be near the starting setting.

I like to start with the tuner weight ~.030" forward of turned all the way in (toward the action).

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[dmoran]

My way is without to find the load and tune the load to what the barrel truly likes.
Then add the tuner and tune it smaller/tighter yet.
Donovan

 

[savagedasher]

The last 5 Dashers I have helped with using the RAS tuner brake. The tuner was turned all the way forward to the stop and backed off to free it up. Did 2 two shot test if it had had vertical I turn a very small amount .010 and test 2 more two shot targets. With a tuner it should tell if you need to turn again. The target will have a change going to horizontal Right or Left. If it is right turn it .005 more and you have a tune on the left side of the aim. If it isn't turn very little and test again.
The last two guns had two two shot All under .100 The 5 shot proof on both guns was all under .100
one had .065 5 shot. Larry

 

[BountyHunter]

The last 5 Dashers I have helped with using the RAS tuner brake. The tuner was turned all the way forward to the stop and backed off to free it up. Did 2 two shot test if it had had vertical I turn a very small amount .010 and test 2 more two shot targets. With a tuner it should tell if you need to turn again. The target will have a change going to horizontal Right or Left. If it is right turn it .005 more and you have a tune on the left side of the aim. If it isn't turn very little and test again.
The last two guns had two two shot All under .100 The 5 shot proof on both guns was all under .100
one had .065 5 shot. Larry

When you say move it .010, are you talking one mark on the RAS or a small movement partially to the next mark?

 

[dmoran]

The last 5 Dashers I have helped with using the RAS tuner brake. The tuner was turned all the way forward to the stop and backed off to free it up. Did 2 two shot test if it had had vertical I turn a very small amount .010 and test 2 more two shot targets. With a tuner it should tell if you need to turn again. The target will have a change going to horizontal Right or Left. If it is right turn it .005 more and you have a tune on the left side of the aim. If it isn't turn very little and test again.
The last two guns had two two shot All under .100 The 5 shot proof on both guns was all under .100
one had .065 5 shot. Larry

Larry -
Are you saying you do no load development, and just use the tuner exclusively to tune the entire load?
Or are you saying what you do for tuner tuning after load development?
The OP's question is to load development...... and asking if to conduct it with the tuner on or off.
Donovan

 

[LRPV]

Donovan, I've always thought that the weight of the tuner itself would affect results doing initial load development so I've always put it on from the beginning and then tried moving the tuner after I thought I had the best shooting load I could get. This is with a tuner brake. Am I thinking wrong?

 

[savagedasher]

We have 9 dashers with 2 different reamer free bore. we all are jumping the bullets .022 to .035 .We all load 36.6 GR of H4350 from different lots. Set the tuner to the to the load I listed. With a tuner you will see the tuner change from vertical to horizontal or horizontal to vertical. The corner where the direction changes is a tune. By shooting two shots at a + you will find the pattern from a dead aim. You end up with vertical up or down. Or horizontal right or left. On the corner of each change is a tune. I like the corner of vertical up and to the right with a tail wind. In a head wind I like vertical down and to the left.
Larry

 

[RLP]

Watching with interest....Starting out with a new rifle/tuner/brake this year as well. If the OP has the RASS T/B, Bostrom says to shoot 3-5 two shot groups without the T/B installed to establish a baseline. But cannot find anything on the actual load development process whether with or without ...

Bob

 

[savagedasher]

Watching with interest....Starting out with a new rifle/tuner/brake this year as well. If the OP has the RASS T/B, Bostrom says to shoot 3-5 two shot groups without the T/B installed to establish a baseline. But cannot find anything on the actual load development process whether with or without ...

Bob

Bob if it shoot one hole no load development is needed. Larry

 

[RLP]

Bob if it shoot one hole no load development is needed.


Larry, Sounds like a plan..guess I'll load for 3000fps and kiss the lands and give it a try (in a 6BRX) Thanks

Bob

 

[dmoran]

Donovan, I've always thought that the weight of the tuner itself would affect results doing initial load development so I've always put it on from the beginning and then tried moving the tuner after I thought I had the best shooting load I could get. This is with a tuner brake. Am I thinking wrong?

Good question.... I'm not sure either.....
Just that myself on my 1000yd Lt-Gun, I tuned the load to the barrel first, then added the tuner and tuned it smaller yet.
At 100yds the groups were no smaller/tighter, but at 1000yds they averaged 24% smaller.
The load was developed and tuned to have less then 3" of vertical at 1000 before putting the tuner on.
Then putting the tuner on and tuning it smaller/tighter yet with the tuner.
Donovan

 

[savagedasher]

Bob if it shoot one hole no load development is needed.


Larry, Sounds like a plan..guess I'll load for 3000fps and kiss the lands and give it a try (in a 6BRX) Thanks

Bob

Bob The load we are working with ben proven to have very low SD and ES. Lots of case prep.
Without very small SD & ES I feel you cant get a good tune. Internal case capacity is first place to start. Primer pockets Primer hole both are part of the internal case capacity. Neck thickness and length has much to do with checking or error in checking usable case capacity. When the bullet is seated that takes the neck out. Cases should be check from the shoulder with the least amount of the neck being involved.
I have a proto type of a tool to do just that.
Tuning a barrel is no different then tuning a race motor. All 8 combustion chambers must be exact. The same amount of fuel must be the same Volume and burn rate. The ignition must be the same every time.
Larry

 

[Shynloco]

My way is without to find the load and tune the load to what the barrel truly likes.
Then add the tuner and tune it smaller/tighter yet.
Donovan

+1. That IMHO is the proper way to do it.

Alex

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

My way is without to find the load and tune the load to what the barrel truly likes.
Then add the tuner and tune it smaller/tighter yet.
Donovan

+1. That IMHO is the proper way to do it.

Alex

Alex,

Why is this the "proper" way? It makes more sense to me, to do the load development with the tuner, but set in a given spot...like on zero, until you find the load the barrel likes. How would that be different than shooting a solid barrel with a dognot machined into it...like an Anschutz? I fail to see the reasoning behind your statement.


I'm not saying that it can't work, but I am questioning why it is stated as fact, as being the "proper" method. FWIW, I've done it both ways and have found both methods to work. I just don't see the logic with working up loads and then effectively changing barrel profiles, and stating that as preferred.


There are plenty of misconceptions about tuners. Personally, I think this is an example of another misconception about how to use one.


That said, if it works for you, do it. The important thing is that we move to more tuner use. They're so easy to use and so effective, that it's a no-brainer, IMHO.


There is only a very small handful of shooters with more tuner experience than I have...and a much smaller group that have actually tested them and their use as much, including vibration analysis.


I'm not saying you're wrong, because as I said, I've found both ways to work. I just hope that everyone keeps an open mind with regard to tuners and doesn't fall into the he said, she said type of conjecture that's all over the internet regarding tuners. The science does not support most of what you read.


Actually, I find it quite interesting that both methods can and do work. Me, I work up loads with the tuner set at the same spot during load work up. I've seen no reason not to and logic would have it that I wouldn't want to change barrel contours after I work up my load. Again, I find it quite interesting that both ways do work...repeatably. I can't answer why this is...Particularly when you consider what a tuner does, it becomes a real head scratcher how it can work both ways...to me.


I could guess, but that's sort of my point with this post. I'd like to see less conjecture and more science, when discussing tuners.--Mike Ezell

 

[Curmudgeon]

OK, so it seems I will test first without and then with. I have been shooting previous 1:8 with H-4350 and 107 SMK. I will start ladder at 400 with 38 gr. and run up to 42. Then do OCW and install tuner and repeat. This is the first time I have worked tuner brake so it's all new. That is less than 50 rounds to get to point I can work tuner. Wind permitting I will get to it this weekend. Will load between now and then. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will post pictures of the results.

 

[savagedasher]

The last 5 Dashers I have helped with using the RAS tuner brake. The tuner was turned all the way forward to the stop and backed off to free it up. Did 2 two shot test if it had had vertical I turn a very small amount .010 and test 2 more two shot targets. With a tuner it should tell if you need to turn again. The target will have a change going to horizontal Right or Left. If it is right turn it .005 more and you have a tune on the left side of the aim. If it isn't turn very little and test again.
The last two guns had two two shot All under .100 The 5 shot proof on both guns was all under .100
one had .065 5 shot. Larry

I use a fine tip marker about .010 wide. In that amount movement you will see it changing. It can be as much as full vertical to horizontal, That can be that you have missed a tune point. With the marks on the tuner one and half will have as much as 4 different tunes. Vertical up or vertical down. Horizontal right and left. On the change between horizontal and vertical is a tune. You will need to find the best one the conditions you shoot in. Larry

When you say move it .010, are you talking one mark on the RAS or a small movement partially to the next mark?