Ladder Test suggestions???
- Thread starter xdeano
- Start date
Dean, based on your first eval, I thought 45.2 would be your sweet spot, but you can't tell it from this batch of targets. Honestly it looks like maybe you had a bad shooting day for some reason. Apparently wind wasn't the problem, but maybe your rest, your hold or your eyes were just not right when you shot these. So what I'm saying is that I'm not sure I wouldn't just throw this batch out and reshoot it.
Considering only this batch of targets, #2 seems to show great promise to me, strictly based on the vertical, which is all you should be looking at. The hitch is that you also need to consider the charges just below and just below Group 2, and there is no group using 44.6gr. If you look at Groups 2 and 3, you'll see that 3 rose just slightly above 2,excluding the high and low fliers), which is what you want to see, as little change as possible on either side of your sweet spot. Maybe try 44.6, 44.8 and 45.0 again.
Considering only this batch of targets, #2 seems to show great promise to me, strictly based on the vertical, which is all you should be looking at. The hitch is that you also need to consider the charges just below and just below Group 2, and there is no group using 44.6gr. If you look at Groups 2 and 3, you'll see that 3 rose just slightly above 2,excluding the high and low fliers), which is what you want to see, as little change as possible on either side of your sweet spot. Maybe try 44.6, 44.8 and 45.0 again.
Looks to me like your gun's sweet spot is in the 2800 area,target #2). I think I would play with that. Try a different primer as well. Sometimes that will make a difference.
Tim
Tim
Tony,
My OAL of my test rounds were 2.800'
My bullets are touching my lands at 2.8125'
Lapua brass
Lapua 155g Scenar
Fed 210M
Hodgdon Varget
I'll change the seating depth and see what happens, then i'll move to the primers.
What I've always heard about the Scenars is that they don't mind a jump compared to say Bergers or JLK's, so they're more like the SMK.
Like I said earlier, I wish I would have not gone shooting that day. It was overcast and I was having a heck of a time seeing the center of my 1' square at 300. That was why i put a blue dot in the center, I think that threw me off a bit also. I'll do another test when the weather turns around again. Will be raining cats and dogs for the entire weekend.
Thanks guys,
Deano
My OAL of my test rounds were 2.800'
My bullets are touching my lands at 2.8125'
Lapua brass
Lapua 155g Scenar
Fed 210M
Hodgdon Varget
I'll change the seating depth and see what happens, then i'll move to the primers.
What I've always heard about the Scenars is that they don't mind a jump compared to say Bergers or JLK's, so they're more like the SMK.
Like I said earlier, I wish I would have not gone shooting that day. It was overcast and I was having a heck of a time seeing the center of my 1' square at 300. That was why i put a blue dot in the center, I think that threw me off a bit also. I'll do another test when the weather turns around again. Will be raining cats and dogs for the entire weekend.
Thanks guys,
Deano
Not sure why you picked the #11 charge, Deano, because the OCW method says you have to have three compatible charges in order to have a node or sweet spot. On those last test groups you shot, you didn't include the charge that would have been the next one down from #11.
My guess is that you decided to test #11 some more because that's what you saw as the smallest group of the bunch, even though it was only two shots. This happens to a lot of us when we first start tinkering with the OCW method; we just can't tear ourselves away from that one really great group, even though the charge weights on either side produced much larger groups.
You've got to remember that the #1 goal of OCW is to find three powder charge weights that result in the tightest/least amount of vertical in the rounds fired. That's the whole goal. If I shoot 10-12 charge weights and there simply is no discernible node, then I try other powders or a different bullet. We all know that there are guns that just don't like a particular weight or style of bullet; same for powders, although less often. I have a Remmy in .243 that prefers Remington brass over any other. It's the only gun I have that's that way, but I've tested it over and over and it's simply a fact. I suspect it has something to do with case volume and I could probably play around with the powder charge and get it to shoot Win brass well, but why go to all that effort when I already know it shoots really, really well with Rem brass and my favorite .243 hunting bullet and powder.
I went back, looked at the last groups you fired and realized I misread the targets. See how you have some bullet holes that show up both on the upper target AND on the lower, where the paper overlapped? Dummy me didn't realize that's what was going on and I thought those were different holes. Looking at the targets again, I really like similar vertical and velocities in the last three groups. Carefully load 13 rounds at 45.4gr, using the SAME jump as you did on the target you posted. Take 'em to the range and shoot 3 fouling rounds from that batch of 13 you loaded, then shoot two five-shot groups at 300 yards. Make sure you have flags out and don't get in a hurry. Pick a condition and don't pull the trigger until you have that condition. Don't worry about some time limit, you don't have one. You want the absolute best 5-shot groups you can produce. My guess is that if you're careful, you may well end up with two groups both 1 1/2 inches or less, which is .5MOA. I forget what rifle you're shooting, but if you can shoot .5MOA at 300 yards, that's pretty incredible in most people's books. Give that a try and see what happens.
My guess is that you decided to test #11 some more because that's what you saw as the smallest group of the bunch, even though it was only two shots. This happens to a lot of us when we first start tinkering with the OCW method; we just can't tear ourselves away from that one really great group, even though the charge weights on either side produced much larger groups.
You've got to remember that the #1 goal of OCW is to find three powder charge weights that result in the tightest/least amount of vertical in the rounds fired. That's the whole goal. If I shoot 10-12 charge weights and there simply is no discernible node, then I try other powders or a different bullet. We all know that there are guns that just don't like a particular weight or style of bullet; same for powders, although less often. I have a Remmy in .243 that prefers Remington brass over any other. It's the only gun I have that's that way, but I've tested it over and over and it's simply a fact. I suspect it has something to do with case volume and I could probably play around with the powder charge and get it to shoot Win brass well, but why go to all that effort when I already know it shoots really, really well with Rem brass and my favorite .243 hunting bullet and powder.
I went back, looked at the last groups you fired and realized I misread the targets. See how you have some bullet holes that show up both on the upper target AND on the lower, where the paper overlapped? Dummy me didn't realize that's what was going on and I thought those were different holes. Looking at the targets again, I really like similar vertical and velocities in the last three groups. Carefully load 13 rounds at 45.4gr, using the SAME jump as you did on the target you posted. Take 'em to the range and shoot 3 fouling rounds from that batch of 13 you loaded, then shoot two five-shot groups at 300 yards. Make sure you have flags out and don't get in a hurry. Pick a condition and don't pull the trigger until you have that condition. Don't worry about some time limit, you don't have one. You want the absolute best 5-shot groups you can produce. My guess is that if you're careful, you may well end up with two groups both 1 1/2 inches or less, which is .5MOA. I forget what rifle you're shooting, but if you can shoot .5MOA at 300 yards, that's pretty incredible in most people's books. Give that a try and see what happens.
KF,
I started to read your post and got confused, by the end of the first paragraph. I'm glad that you went back to my initial targets. It's my fault that I didn't number all of the targets, They are now. At the time though I just wanted to get as much info as possible.
You're correct. the first target has 2 holes, the other was off the paper,,175g SMK), so I pulled it down a couple of clicks to get it on paper for the 155's knowing that they would have a bit less drop.
Sorry about the confusion with the overlapped paper, another stupid thing that I did. I only had 7 staples with me that day. hahaha.
I'm shooting a GAP 308. It should be able to shoot better than this at 300yds. I was able to shoot better at 300 with my 700P, but it was a great gun.
I'll give the 45.4g's a try. That is my #14, which is the second set of targets, bottom, middle.
Thanks,
Deano
I started to read your post and got confused, by the end of the first paragraph. I'm glad that you went back to my initial targets. It's my fault that I didn't number all of the targets, They are now. At the time though I just wanted to get as much info as possible.
You're correct. the first target has 2 holes, the other was off the paper,,175g SMK), so I pulled it down a couple of clicks to get it on paper for the 155's knowing that they would have a bit less drop.
Sorry about the confusion with the overlapped paper, another stupid thing that I did. I only had 7 staples with me that day. hahaha.
I'm shooting a GAP 308. It should be able to shoot better than this at 300yds. I was able to shoot better at 300 with my 700P, but it was a great gun.
I'll give the 45.4g's a try. That is my #14, which is the second set of targets, bottom, middle.
Thanks,
Deano
Well guys I think i'll stick with this load. It took me a few rounds to settle down. but I ended up with a decent group with one flier that I can attest to.
All of my groups were shifted to the right about 3 inches for some reason.
The second target over was the 3 sighters, and the third target was the first 5 round group and the group that was off the paper was my last 5 round group of #14 powder load of 45.4g Varget. I had to add paper and punch in the holes.
I just thought you guys would like to know the progress. I wasn't able to chronograph my shots for some reason my chrono wouldn't read, it kept coming up with an error.
Thanks again.
Deano
All of my groups were shifted to the right about 3 inches for some reason.
The second target over was the 3 sighters, and the third target was the first 5 round group and the group that was off the paper was my last 5 round group of #14 powder load of 45.4g Varget. I had to add paper and punch in the holes.
I just thought you guys would like to know the progress. I wasn't able to chronograph my shots for some reason my chrono wouldn't read, it kept coming up with an error.
Thanks again.
Deano
the flier was low and left. all the other shots I didn't bother numbering. or going down to number them. it was only me the day i shot so i didn't have anyone in the pit pulling for me. I'll mess around with it a bit more here in the coming week.
It was .854' at 300yds, or about a 3/10 MOA, that isn't to bad for me.
thanks
Deano
It was .854' at 300yds, or about a 3/10 MOA, that isn't to bad for me.
thanks
Deano
Deano, Sub inch at 300?! I'll keep that!
I ran a ladder at 300 yds on Saturday with 140 gr Accubonds in the 6.5-284. Unfortunately, that was as far as I could shoot.
Results:
Velocities marched up very nicely, but the POI did not do much marching.
In the 11 shot ladder,47-50 gr H4350 in 0.3 gr increments): #1-3 had about 3/8' vertical, #4 went high right, #5 and #6 had about 1/4 vertical and were 1/2' above #1-3, #7 went high right, #8, 9 had about 1/4 vertical at same elevation as #5,6, and finally #10 and 11 were touching about 1 inch about #8,9. In the end I had an 11 shot group with 3 inch vertical and 2.5 inch horizontal. No pressures with 50.0 gr H4350. I'm gonna run 3 shot groups with 49.7,#10), 50.0,#11) and 50.3,untested).
I ran a ladder at 300 yds on Saturday with 140 gr Accubonds in the 6.5-284. Unfortunately, that was as far as I could shoot.
Results:
Velocities marched up very nicely, but the POI did not do much marching.
In the 11 shot ladder,47-50 gr H4350 in 0.3 gr increments): #1-3 had about 3/8' vertical, #4 went high right, #5 and #6 had about 1/4 vertical and were 1/2' above #1-3, #7 went high right, #8, 9 had about 1/4 vertical at same elevation as #5,6, and finally #10 and 11 were touching about 1 inch about #8,9. In the end I had an 11 shot group with 3 inch vertical and 2.5 inch horizontal. No pressures with 50.0 gr H4350. I'm gonna run 3 shot groups with 49.7,#10), 50.0,#11) and 50.3,untested).
Thanks guys!
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