Krieger now offering 5R rifling!
- Thread starter Obtunded
- Start date
That will add some nice options for Krieger. I wonder what has changed. Thought Krieger had an agreement with Boots not to sell 5R barrels. It will be interesting to see if Krieger now adds CNC technology to making barrels also. Krieger has always made very fine barrels. But technology changes and to be competetive we all have to change.
Nat Lambeth
Nat Lambeth
I'm not sure how you can make such a good barrel any better, but as the Canadian importer of Krieger barrels, we had many requests for 5R rifled barrels in the belief these offered some sort of an advantage. The options for canted and 5R rifled barrels are few up here, so I brought the case to Krieger. Whether we had anything to do with this decision or not, Krieger has obtained the rights from Obermeyer to produce 5R rifled barrels and they are the only ones authorized to do so.
I applaud their willingness to try new things and I know the folks at Krieger: they wouldn't do it unless they they could do it very well.
I applaud their willingness to try new things and I know the folks at Krieger: they wouldn't do it unless they they could do it very well.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
I suspect the decision of Krieger to offer 5R rifled barrels may have had something to do with the fact that Bartlein Barrels (a competitor to Krieger) has been offering this type of canted land rifling in cut rifled barrels for a little while now (i.e. so it was either either step up to the plate and do it or lose the business to a competitor).
We have certainly purchased a fair number of canted land barrels from Bartlein, and Krieger did not offer that as an option before.
Robert Whitley
We have certainly purchased a fair number of canted land barrels from Bartlein, and Krieger did not offer that as an option before.
Robert Whitley
Robert makes a good point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also got to wonder about the statement on Krieger's website about the only Obermeyer approved 5R?
Bet Boot's didn't have Russian approval and how do you know it's made to the Russian spec. or he came up with his own spec?
And charge an extra $30 for each one for who knows who's spec?
Later, Frank
I also got to wonder about the statement on Krieger's website about the only Obermeyer approved 5R?
Bet Boot's didn't have Russian approval and how do you know it's made to the Russian spec. or he came up with his own spec?
And charge an extra $30 for each one for who knows who's spec?
Later, Frank
There's been a great deal of innovation in barrel making lately, and from where I sit, most of it appears to originate at Bartlein. I have two Bartleing 5R barrels in use right now, a 6XC and a .30-06, both on long-range prone rifles and both are performing extremely well. My last match with the .30-06 included a 200-15 and a 200-13 at 500 yards and the 6XC gave a 200-14 and a 199-14 on its last outing (both over the past three weeks, all prone, iron sights).
Bartlein has earned my business with innovation and quality. I'm not knocking Kreiger, most of the barrels I shoot are Kreiger and they perform very well also. However, as I go replacing them, Bartlein will likely be the primary choice.
Bartlein has earned my business with innovation and quality. I'm not knocking Kreiger, most of the barrels I shoot are Kreiger and they perform very well also. However, as I go replacing them, Bartlein will likely be the primary choice.
Moderator
Administrator
Krieger's 5R barrels have a slope or ramp on both sides of the lands (rather than a 90-degree angle). It is thought that: 1) this is easier on bullet jackets, causing less deformation; 2) this creates a better gas seal which MIGHT increase velocity; 3) because there are no sharp 90-deg corners on the lands, the barrels foul less and clean easier. The last point is pretty well accepted. As for 1 & 2, I haven't seen definitive proof.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Isn't that similar to Shilen's Ratchet barrel?
Butch
Butch
I don't know why, or even if, a 5R barrel is somehow better than a conventionally rifled barrel. All I can say at this point is that they are not worse. The 5R barrels clean well and foul little, but so do my normal Krieger barrels.
One of the things I'm looking at is accuracy life, that's why these are chambered for two cartridges with which I have a lot of experience (.30-06 and 6XC). So far, the .30-06 with about 2600 rounds appears to be progressing normally when examined through the borescope and the 6XC at less than 600 rounds looks OK too but it's very early yet for that one.
I don't think there's magic in barrels when comparing well made barrels from good makers. If a maker finds a method that suits him and he perfects his process, chances are that the barrels will be very good.
There's more than one way to skin a cat or to rifle a barrel. When you study the history of firearms development, you'll find that there have been many (dozens) of rifling patterns used over the past couple of centuries. All had their promoters and adherents, some have survived, some not and new ones are still appearing -what fun!
One of the things I'm looking at is accuracy life, that's why these are chambered for two cartridges with which I have a lot of experience (.30-06 and 6XC). So far, the .30-06 with about 2600 rounds appears to be progressing normally when examined through the borescope and the 6XC at less than 600 rounds looks OK too but it's very early yet for that one.
I don't think there's magic in barrels when comparing well made barrels from good makers. If a maker finds a method that suits him and he perfects his process, chances are that the barrels will be very good.
There's more than one way to skin a cat or to rifle a barrel. When you study the history of firearms development, you'll find that there have been many (dozens) of rifling patterns used over the past couple of centuries. All had their promoters and adherents, some have survived, some not and new ones are still appearing -what fun!
Shilen's ratchet rifling is not the same. Kinda like a conventional on one side and a radius or so on the other is the best way I can describe it.
The 5R has an angle on both sides of the lands vs. conventional rifling where the sides of the lands meet the groove for the most part at 90 degrees.
I don't believe in the theory that the bullets seal better in the bore and you get more velocity. I haven't seen this the case in any of them that I've shot.
Tightening up the bore size or groove sizes vs. a standard or looser size will raise or increase pressures and have more of an impact on velocity. The number of grooves or style of grooves I don't think will do anything.
I've talked to guys who have Obermeyer 5R barrels and said they where slow velocity wise etc...also I feel the throat spec. will effect this also.
One of my 5R chambered in 6mm Rem. vs. the previous barrel which was a 4 groove. The difference in velocity was like 30fps. The 4 groove was faster but to me it was just the individuality of each barrel. I've seen the same thing with indentical 4 grooves etc.....
I feel the odd number of grooves might help distort the bullet jacket less and this might help with bullet failure.
Some say if you want hard core accuracy you want conventional rifling. For the most part I see no difference.
Also no difference in barrel life.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
The 5R has an angle on both sides of the lands vs. conventional rifling where the sides of the lands meet the groove for the most part at 90 degrees.
I don't believe in the theory that the bullets seal better in the bore and you get more velocity. I haven't seen this the case in any of them that I've shot.
Tightening up the bore size or groove sizes vs. a standard or looser size will raise or increase pressures and have more of an impact on velocity. The number of grooves or style of grooves I don't think will do anything.
I've talked to guys who have Obermeyer 5R barrels and said they where slow velocity wise etc...also I feel the throat spec. will effect this also.
One of my 5R chambered in 6mm Rem. vs. the previous barrel which was a 4 groove. The difference in velocity was like 30fps. The 4 groove was faster but to me it was just the individuality of each barrel. I've seen the same thing with indentical 4 grooves etc.....
I feel the odd number of grooves might help distort the bullet jacket less and this might help with bullet failure.
Some say if you want hard core accuracy you want conventional rifling. For the most part I see no difference.
Also no difference in barrel life.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
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