I have a new Kowa 881 w/20 power long eye relief eyepiece and am not very impressed with seeing .22 caliber holes at 200yards. I can see well in white area of target but if holes are in the black , can't see them. Even at 100yrds if the .22 holes are in the black they will not show up very well. Am I expecting to much for that power eye piece.Would a 20-60 power eye piece be the answer? The 881 is the standard lens type. I hate to think I spent that much money for a scope that really does not fair much better than an old Bushnell it replaced.
Kowa 881 spotting scope question
- Thread starter dan2116
- Start date
Can you see .22 bullet holes in a black target at 5 yards without a scope? If so, then you should be able to see them at 100y with a scope at 20x magnification.
Can you see them without a scope at 10y? Then you should probably be able to see them with a scope of 20x at 200y.
However, distance, and light transmission through the scope, will degrade the image.
You gotta have realistic expectations with optics. Shoot white targets instead, or bright orange. If I want to see bullet holes, that's what I do.
Can you see them without a scope at 10y? Then you should probably be able to see them with a scope of 20x at 200y.
However, distance, and light transmission through the scope, will degrade the image.
You gotta have realistic expectations with optics. Shoot white targets instead, or bright orange. If I want to see bullet holes, that's what I do.
If you are wearing glasses - take them off - and try spotting. This helps me a lot.
We shoot a lot of 200 yard 22 target matches and the bullet holes are HARD to see unless the sun is out and there is a contrasting back drop.
It this does not work, try to find someone with the adjsutable eyepiece before buying one.
George
We shoot a lot of 200 yard 22 target matches and the bullet holes are HARD to see unless the sun is out and there is a contrasting back drop.
It this does not work, try to find someone with the adjsutable eyepiece before buying one.
George
Except for the local CMP and NRA Hi Power rifle matches, where they are required, I never use any "black" targets. A plain white or beige sheet of paper is my choice and I use the Birchwood Casey orange "dots", small, medium or large diameter, depending on the scope magnification used and the distances. The small black diamond in the center of the dot is an excellent focus point when adjusting for parrallax. For the 4 & 500 yd. g'hog benchrest matches, I bought a Nikon with a 82mm objective & 25 to 75x eyepiece, but while excellent, it also has its' limitations. A Bushnell "Spacemaster" is used for a maximum of 200 yds., and it does the job under good light conditions.
fdshuster said:
The only problem with that black diamond is if you can't spot bullet holes near or around it... then you wonder if (i..e. hope that!!!) all of the shots went into the black. So you're still occasionally forced to make a trip downrange to see the good/bad news.
At Sac Valley, on the 300y public range on the left side, the typical target the range shack offers is a reduced Palma type target with a big aiming black center. Unless I'm shooting irons, I flip this target over and paste orange dots on it. Way easier to see shots, and you have way more aiming points to shoot groups.
With a black target, the trick is to try to get light illuminating your target from behind, if possible. Maybe kluge up a mirror on a clamp on the target frame? But if you break the mirror, then you're hosed for what, 7 years? Speaking of, right now, the USA is hosed for at least 3 more, and maybe seven years!
dan2116 said:
Like Travelor says, try one before you buy it. The drawback to variable power eyepieces, like a 20-60x, is that they won't be as clear as a fixed power lens at the same magnification. At high magnification, image tremble and mirage can be so problematic that you won't be able to gain the benefit of the increased image size.
Exit pupil (the beam of light transmitting the image to your eye) is smaller, so the image is dimmer. And you need to hold the scope steady like a rock to avoid image tremble. Throw in some mirage, and you may find that 60x viewing is only possible on the most perfect days. Even then, resolving such small holes in a black target is not a given.
To shine light through the holes, set up a parallel backer like in Smallbore. You'll need to make a little frame for it, but a nice white sheet of cardboard (poster board) about one foot behind the target will shine through like a flashlight. Cutting out the cardboard behind the target still helps because the holes on the target paper don't close up like cardboard does.
Nate: The "little" black diamond is not a problem, since it is used as the point-of-aim only. Scopes are adjusted so point-of-impact is 1 1/2" to 2" higher. Yes, (somewhat) to the thoughts on the variable power eyepiece like the 25 to 75x on my Nikon Fieldscope w/ the ED glass. Only when conditions are ideal can I use it at the max of 75x. Throw in some mirage and other degrading conditions, and I usually end up using 40x, but I do have the ability to instantly select up (or down), whatever I want, and to me, that's important. And yes again: I am able to spot 6mm holes in the black (scoring rings and g'hog outline), at 500 yds., when conditions are ideal. Mirage and a target in the shadows creates the limitations. Scope is securely C-Clamped to the bench on a short 1" piece of black pipe/ no movement or vibration what-so-ever.
LarryDScott
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Dan, I have an 821 w/the 27 pwr long eye relief angled eyepiece, and Its fantastically clear, but good as it is, bullet holes at 200yds in the black is almost impossible.. Your money for the Kowa was well spent. Ive heard it said that the staight power eye pieces have the edge over the variables, but I have no experience. Larry in western ky.
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