King of 2 mile

[dkhunt14]

I disagree, one of the guys that shot last year was from my area and seemed like a really nice guy. There are always snobs, trap shooting especially haha. If I had the time I would love to try and shoot in this competition. It's really like any other competition, sometimes the rules get changed to suit specific people. The wheel that squeaks the loudest usually gets the most oil. I enjoy watching the competition and while not perfect its the best thing going right now in the elr world. I would rather have it going on and imperfect than for it to fail.
I also think it brings in a large crowd when on tv and the more people that become interested and compete in our sport the stronger we are.

I think the one is Montana starting up is going to surpass this. Better rules and simpler format. Scoring is what you shoot. The rules were set up for other places to start up and I believe it will grow like 1000 yard shooting. I also believe all people can shoot and not be turned down like the other one. Matt

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Come on guys. Think about it. How is King of 2 mile any worse than other competitions?
K2M might think their competition is better. BR guys think putting groups on paper is better, F-class guys think shooting from a bench is ridiculous and hitting center target is more important than group size. PRS guys shoot from difficult positions that relate to real world application so they must be the most skilled shooters right? 3 gun is all about speed so they must be the best. Archery guys think everyone with a gun is a moron. And EVERY major competition has sponsors looking to advertise and sell their product.

Point is who the hell cares! Competitions are all just a bunch of big ol' pissin' contests that ultimately mean absolutely nothing in real life. They're just peoples personal hobbies. This Montana 2K competition is no different nor is it any better. Have respect for the style of shooting each person chooses to enjoy.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

BTW, I'm not trying to piss anyone off here and I apologize if my comment did that. Everyone has a right to their opinion. All I'm trying to say is that all different forms of competition require a different skill set. A guy who has only ever shot Benchrest his whole life probably isn't going to do very well the first time he tries PRS and vice versa.

I think the Montana 2K competition has a lot of good rules in the format. Group shooting proves the consistency of a rifle and ammunition. But K2om could argue that they don't use sighter rounds prior to record strings. So if they are making first round hits on each target, which competition is more conducive to true accuracy and shooter skill? That would be for each person to decide. I think both style of competitions have good points. And they ALL help to elevate a bring new people into the shooting sports.

 

[mongo chicago]

I like the idea of first round hits being more valuable. I like the limited number of rounds. I like the no sighters allowed. I like the idea of not walking your shots to the target. You don't need to buy all the gadgets if you can meet the challenge without them. The ONLY valid complaint that I have seen so far is that they keep lowering the weight limit which sucks if you build a gun for the match (which can take over a year) and then they change the rule. Scoring can be made simpler as I stated in a previous post. All in all, I like the KO2 miles competition and can't wait for it to be back on t.v. As for expense - yes, I wish I can afford it but as I learned a long time ago - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHEAP HOBBY -. Also, at this stage, I no longer have the mental acuity or physical ability to do so.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Yeah it takes a lot of time, thought, money and effort to build an ELR rifle to meet a specific standard. Changing weights would be fine if they "added" another class rather than changing a class that everyone was preparing for. Pretty shady move there.

As far as the scoring system. It may be messed up in a sense, but it's known to all the competitors. If 5 hits at 1500 is gonna give you the best chance at winning, then that's where a person should focus their efforts for the shoot. Make it work to your advantage so to speak.

 

[6MMsteve]

seems to me they want a small group of peeps so they can toot each others horn, let them keep the small group the 2000 yd match coming up will set the standard others will follow

 

[Milo 2.0]

As far as the scoring system. It may be messed up in a sense, but it's known to all the competitors. If 5 hits at 1500 is gonna give you the best chance at winning, then that's where a person should focus their efforts for the shoot. Make it work to your advantage so to speak.

Not sure why I try to predict stuff I have no control over, but as more people clean 2600 yard targets, the 1500 will disappear. The 58,000 scores are off the wall, it's just multiplied by 100, even if you are 25K under the winner, still means he doubled your score. 56,500 to 24,700 is the same as 565 to 247, lol

 

[Milo 2.0]

I like the idea of first round hits being more valuable. I like the limited number of rounds. I like the no sighters allowed. I like the idea of not walking your shots to the target. You don't need to buy all the gadgets if you can meet the challenge without them. The ONLY valid complaint that I have seen so far is that they keep lowering the weight limit which sucks if you build a gun for the match (which can take over a year) and then they change the rule. Scoring can be made simpler as I stated in a previous post. All in all, I like the KO2 miles competition and can't wait for it to be back on t.v. As for expense - yes, I wish I can afford it but as I learned a long time ago - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHEAP HOBBY -. Also, at this stage, I no longer have the mental acuity or physical ability to do so.

I like the format too, but make no mistake, being one of the first 3 teams up has to be a disadvantage. As long as all teams can spot what's going on, sooner or later the light bulb comes on. You'd be a fool not to gather data of previous shooters. With no sighters and cold bore counts, sometimes I think it would only be fair to have anyone not shooting to not be allowed on glass, period.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Yeah I honestly don't understand their scoring system. Never even attempted to understand the confusion. I just like watching the shooting.

I don't think it would be very hard to set up a similar shoot as K2om with all the rule changes everyone wants to see. Biggest problem would be finding the real estate to do it.

They could always add some "no sighter" relays to the Montana E2K match. Have the best of both worlds then

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Competition is critical. Any form of it. Without peers you have no clue how you stand and if your even any good or not. It drives innovation. 2 moa would still be good if BR never existed. We wouldnt understand building a position and bone support if not for high power and so on. The collective knowledge we all have is because of competition shooters. I dont think ELR will ever be popular. But Im sure there will be innovation because of it that will benefit all shooters.

 

[mongo chicago]

I forgot to mention another thing I really like about the KO2M. NO ALIBIS! I would have liked the N.R.A. to have had that in all their competitions. As a competitor, your equipment should be in safe and proper working order to begin with. Of course - an official range alibi is a different matter.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd Slinger wrote: They could always add some "no sighter" relays to the Montana E2K match. Have the best of both worlds then

Great idea. The BR guys would be in for a RUDE awakening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EJ

Yeah I suggested a cold bore, no sighter, single shot, closest X relay for a separate pot but they didn't want anything to do with it.

I like to challenge myself to make good hit's with a cold bore because I'm a hunter. Sighters are nice to test a rifle, but not practical for anything other than poking holes in paper. Not really even practical to show a rifles true accuracy characteristics because the record groups on a BR target don't include a cold bore round.

But it's good they put together a group/score ELR match. Pretty sure it's the first of its kind at ranges beyond 1K. I do believe that more technology and advancements in accuracy comes from group/score style shooting competitions

 

[Milo 2.0]

Yeah I suggested a cold bore, no sighter, single shot, closest X relay for a separate pot but they didn't want anything to do with it.

Lol, it gets pretty disruptive having a separate competition within a planned competition.
On Friday, I took 2 brothers(9 & 12) shooting for our annual back to school blast. The goal was to shoot pcc's, <9mm carbines and get the older boy on a 9mm semi auto pistol. We had a ton of steel, texas star, plate racks, all sorts of static plate. Well, in retrospect, bringing a 22 LR revolver was the downfall and the little guy dominated the whole day shooting 300 rds of 22 ammo, he was wise enough to figure out after resetting plates, he could grab subsequent turns by shooting the 22 and then take his turn on a pcc. Yes, I was outsmarted by a 9 yr old.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Lol, it gets pretty disruptive having a separate competition within a planned competition.
On Friday, I took 2 brothers(9 & 12) shooting for our annual back to school blast. The goal was to shoot pcc's, <9mm carbines and get the older boy on a 9mm semi auto pistol. We had a ton of steel, texas star, plate racks, all sorts of static plate. Well, in retrospect, bringing a 22 LR revolver was the downfall and the little guy dominated the whole day shooting 300 rds of 22 ammo, he was wise enough to figure out after resetting plates, he could grab subsequent turns by shooting the 22 and then take his turn on a pcc. Yes, I was outsmarted by a 9 yr old.

LOL. Seems like you created another gun nut like us

If you remember in the beginning, there was even an argument about letting people shoot from the prone position in the E2K match. Originally they just wanted to be another BR style match. If Tom hadn't piped up to support the idea, it would have been shot down like the cold bore no sighter idea.

The whole issue with ELR competition right now is that it was born from steel shooters. Those guys don't care about shooting groups and they don't recognize sighters for accuracy. Hell they won't even recognize other ELR competition rules. Basically theres no standards for any of the matches. Now with the growth of ELR, there's BR guys wanting a piece of the action but they don't recognize steel shooting for accuracy.

The gap needs to be bridged and the E2K is the closest thing to that bridge right now.

Adding prone relays to the E2K match was a good start at bridging the gap between BR and ELR shooters. Having a single relay for no sighter cold bore shots would help bridge the gap even further. Plus add a world record for cold bore group/score and everyone is happy. Eventually you'll have steel shooters trying out BR shooting and BR shooters leaving their comfort zone to try cold bore shooting.

 

[dkhunt14]

My opinion is that most 1000 yard BR shooters were hunters. It started here in 1968 and they were all hunters who wanted a way to see whose gun was better. They know about cold bore shots and wind. Without the repeatable accuracy in a gun, all is lost in the noise.

Before the Pa Original 1000 Yard club was started, guys met on local farms and competed and tested things. Alex Hoyer came to my uncles farm back in the late 50's and tested at 1000 yards. They were all longrange hunters and gathered to test things and see who's gun shot better. This was back before the scopes and equipment we have today. They used to glue pantyhose fibers and hair into scopes for different ranges. Things have come along way in the last 30 years, but they were hunters before it evolved into what it became today. Matt

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I find it hard to believe how many assumptions people take. Show up to a match for once meet the people you're talking about before you assume they are one-trick ponies. But if chilling at home online making assumptions makes you feel good don't let me stop you

 

[Rem06]

i am still waiting for my jacket from Manners ,,,Robert?...huh?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm a bit jealous that I couldn't make the E2K shoot. I spebt a lot of time and miney preparing for it. Hope to change that soon. Would love to shoot with you guys. Looks like you all had a great time at the shoot. That 15" 5 shot group was very impressive. I'll shut my mouth about competitions until I get the chance to participate in them again and have a leg to stand on Until then.....

 

[hubel458]

Here is video of early water barrel test of our

12ga From Hell, from years ago.

Here is picture from that video..

Here is the intermediate size action for 416 HSM with test barrel, .Ed

 

[ttfreestyle]

Ledd Slinger wrote: They could always add some "no sighter" relays to the Montana E2K match. Have the best of both worlds then

Great idea. The BR guys would be in for a RUDE awakening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EJ

Be careful thinking a br guy can’t run his app and make cold bore hits at distance once in a while, just saying