Just a 223 rant...

[Sniper338]

As far as ive seen, a 223 is absolutely a P.O.S. when it comes to deer hunting and trying to shoot deer in the shoulder...

Now. Im not saying a good precise rifle putting a well placed shot wont kill a deer... IN THE RIGHT HANDS...

EVERY single deer, every year, thats tried to have been shot out here at our ranch with a 223 has been lost, and or injured/ never recovered.

It pisses me off to no end. A good buck was lost yesterday evening because of a "tried 223 shoulder shot". At 85 yards.....


It pisses me off, ive tried to give advice nicely... but, it comes down to weekend warrior family members that never shoot a gun besides sighting in their rifles every year before deer season, and trying to shoot a few deer each year...

no one actually shoots, practices, or will buy a decent rifle or scope. Cheap guns, factory ammo, and walmart scopes, and they never hold a zero....

It all just grades on my nerves and pisses me off to loose good breeder quality deer due to ignorance and such...


Its such a mess dealing with family..

 

[Knotwild]

I really have to agree, plus throw in the ones that say all you need is a 55 grain bullet. I have seen first hand failures; one a dead on frontal chest shot. Never found the deer or saw any buzzards in the area later. The forums are full of people who think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then there are the ones that think the 300 Black Out is great a 600 yards and the equal of the 30-30 Winchester.

 

[rcparker1]

in questionable situations like yours i make them neck shoot them on my place. about 6 inches behind jaw bone or nothing.

 

[Dgd6mm]

It's simple, if you have the say so around the ranch, don't allow it.... Or you could put up an argument against it's use....

Don Dunlap

 

[jr600yd]

Sniper 338,
You have my sympathy. I have access to a large farm and hunt with the owner (John) and his son (Bill). John had the same "problem" at the farm. First he classified hunters into two groups A-hunters. They know their rifle, ammo, zero, physical ability and knowledge. B- blasters. So, John made his own rules.

Small game: wood chucks, rabbits, squirrels ect. Calibers upto & including 243.
Medium game: deer, coyotes, ect. 257 and up
Large game: water buffalo 375 and up.

I know some states say 223 is legal for deer hunting but John doesn't care. His property His rules.

 

[Sniper338]

It's simple, if you have the say so around the ranch, don't allow it.... Or you could put up an argument against it's use....

Don Dunlap

It aint easy when its a family place and everyone has the same say

 

[MrMajestic]

Dollar to a doughnut says those same individuals will cripple and lose with a .300 Super Duper Ultra Mega Magnum. It's always shot placement and adequate penetration. JMHO, and I have killed with the .223 and noticed no difference in killing.

 

[rcparker1]

True story. I worked in a friend's gun store when the 375rum came out. We had a guy come in and want to trade his 338rum in on a 375rum. Of course we didn't have anything that big and just making conversation ask where he was going hunting. "Next county over" he replied. Know our deer average 150lbs or so I asked why the hell he was even shooting a 338 and wanted a 375. His reply "I've lost three deer this year. My guns not big enough". Moral of story, can't fix stupid.

 

[r bose]

True story. I worked in a friend's gun store when the 375rum came out. We had a guy come in and want to trade his 338rum in on a 375rum. Of course we didn't have anything that big and just making conversation ask where he was going hunting. "Next county over" he replied. Know our deer average 150lbs or so I asked why the hell he was even shooting a 338 and wanted a 375. His reply "I've lost three deer this year. My guns not big enough". Moral of story, can't fix stupid.

Exactly.....speaks volumes to what the real problem is.

 

[Sniper338]

Exactly.....speaks volumes to what the real problem is.

Yep

 

[snowpro440]

I think its all shot placement and being steady to follow through with the shot. I have shot many with the .223 and a few smaller calibers . Most any deer will drop from a head shot within 75yds from a 22lr .

I think you have a bunch of poor shooters at your place

 

[TZaun]

I shouldn't even be telling this story, because it's about a friend of mine, but it runs in line with rcparker1's story. My buddy has more money than he knows what to do with and goes on guided hunts all over the US and Canada. A few years ago, his guide got him within 70-75 yards of a 370-380 class bull elk that was bedded down. Chip shot for a 300 WSM. Wrong. Video showed the shot hitting somewhere not even close to vitals. Bull got up and didn't know what happened. I think there were 5 or 6 more shots at it basically just standing around. Video showed one other shot hitting nowhere's close to vitals either. Bull finally ran off and they never caught up to it again (can you imagine how pissed that guide must've been?). I'm sure it finally died from the two wounds. A bigger gun wouldn't have changed that outcome at all. In fact, I kinda believe that too big of a gun causes more misses and poorer shot placements because of the flinching from the recoil. If bowhunters (some) can kill a bull at 35 yards with an arrow, I know without a doubt that a .223 with a Barnes bullet could've killed that bull (at that distance) if it was in the right hands. Sniper338, I'm not arguing your point at all, I agree with most of it. Just sharing a story about how it boils down to the fact that some people don't understand that they shouldn't be hunting in the first place. You sound like you're in a tough spot.

 

[fredo]

It pisses me off, ive tried to give advice nicely... but, it comes down to weekend warrior family members that never shoot a gun besides sighting in their rifles every year before deer season, and trying to shoot a few deer each year...

no one actually shoots, practices, or will buy a decent rifle or scope. Cheap guns, factory ammo, and walmart scopes, and they never hold a zero....

It all just grades on my nerves and pisses me off to loose good breeder quality deer due to ignorance and such...


Its such a mess dealing with family..

Sounds more like a "people" rant, than a ".223" rant?

Keep a couple boxes of this around, and make 'em use it...

 

[people]

It sounds like you have a problem with slob hunters. Just because they are family does not mean they are not slobs. No amount of fire power will fix a slob.

Not even a .223 and I got a kill.

 

[Davey Boy]

Don't want to step on any toes or P anyone off. But in Canada we are not allowed to use .22 cal on any big game, only on varmints. Been that way as long as I can remember and I'm 64. I've heard of a person killing a grizzly with only a .22, a good shot is just that. Maybe the powers that be do know what they're talking about when they made the rules here. Just sayin....

 

[timeout]

Dollar to a doughnut says those same individuals will cripple and lose with a .300 Super Duper Ultra Mega Magnun. It's always shot placement and adequate penetration. JMHO, and I have killed with the .223 and noticed no difference in killing.

This.

 

[CJ6]

It aint easy when its a family place and everyone has the same say

Nope it isn't ...But sometimes you just need to stand your ground. Push the ethics of the lost animals and why they're so important.

 

[rcparker1]

Sad part is a lot of "hunters" don't get it. A guy down the road from my farm is a die hard hunter that can't give it up. He's getting old, can't see and shakes like a dog chitten a peach pit. Wounds who knows how many deer. One year it's a bad scope. The next it's a bad batch of bullets. Never can admit he can't hunt ethically any more. Sad situation.

 

[timeout]

Sad part is a lot of "hunters" don't get it. A guy down the road from my farm is a die hard hunter that can't give it up. He's getting old, can't see and shakes like a dog chitten a peach pit. Wounds who knows how many deer. One year it's a bad scope. The next it's a bad batch of bullets. Never can admit he can't hunt ethically any more. Sad situation.

Old age gets us all eventually. I say if he loves to hunt and is still able to drag himself out there, more power to him. He'll not be able to go when they put him in the nursing home

 

[mac86951]

Nope it isn't ...But sometimes you just need to stand your ground. Push the ethics of the lost animals and why they're so important.

Family is the toughest to deal with and often provide the least respect for standing your ground, if this wasn't the case then they'd be easier to deal with.

Maybe in this case offer to follow along and provide a follow-up shot? I know its hard to play guide when they don't want to listen; but who knows maybe less tracking will make them interested? Or how about more shooting at the range for more practice? Maybe set-up some hunting targets on the family land for field practice too?

-Mac