Jan 2023 NRA Highpower RuleBook

[dcali]

It is important that the rules maintain compatibility with the ICFRA rules.

I would disagree with that. I care much more about rules compatibility with benchrest than with international F Class. I know for a fact that I will never shoot F Class in another country, and I think most people are in that boat. I would like to try Open with my BR legal rifle, but I can't. As of right now, I'm not entirely sure if my BR rest is legal in F Class. I think it is? If you want to try both, who wants to figure out which rest is legal in which match? If making gear interchangable in the US between disciplines comes at a cost of making compliance overseas more difficult, so be it.

 

[dcali]

Yeah, … F-Unlimited? Maybe it’s viewed as simply the default division that anything that does not meet the limitations of Tr or Open, shoots within.

Here’s the thing, I just watched Erik’s recent livestream. Erik says he has shot 12 SWN’s, and this year, he won LR.

Maybe Erik got incrementally better this year, - or just maybe, this is the first year ever that Erik shot something faster than his .284 Shehane at SWN, and that BC on target difference - since he used the same bullets, is exactly the edge that has been urged.

Many rests are going to be affected, probably Erik’s too, but I just wonder whether it wouldn’t be interesting to see what unknown edges and advantages, if any remain, that would get tested if all the stops were pulled out, in a separate Div. I have the prototype rest, my friend devised, unused for years, that started all the front rest rule changes, just one of his innovations, and I believe that there’s nothing to lose and maybe something to gain, for free, by letting guys experiment.

I love the idea of totally unlimited classes, but I'm not sure there would be enough difference between open and unlimited to make the distinction worth making. They just need to pick a path and stick to it. Either it's easy high power with simple artificial support, or it's slow fire benchrest laying on the ground. I think the trouble is it started as the former and is evolving into the latter.

Personally, think it would be super fun to have a robot class, where the only restriction would be that a human can't aim or pull the trigger. Let's see how well AI can read the wind...

 

[TylerFromMS]

The "felt" solution as proposed by Rodzilla in their depicted photographs on the web site is not legal. "The fore-end of the rifle must rest upon and/or be guided by the front bag(s)..." A piece of felt is not a bag.

The OP started this thread to find out what the new rules were. We're degenerating into the typical debate and criticisms of "rules". As competitors and match directors we need to know what are the "rules".

My gun doesn’t touch my rollers or felt. It isn’t guided. That may be a hold over from where bags were the only option and the old thing about having to pick the rifle up out of the bags.

I would be shocked if this is actually enforced. I’m sure someone will protest someone else at some point because they’re butthurt they got beat. The truth is, all of these rests move. I don’t care how heavy they are and how tight they are. Maybe one of the unlimited rail gun things wouldn’t. I’ve never actually seen a gun weighed at an f class match, come to think of it. It’s basically going to devolve into Lavrentiy Beria’s outlook: “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.”

 

[Steve Blair]

I’ve never actually seen a gun weighed at an f class match, come to think of it.

My guns were weighed at both US Nationals I attended. They had little stickers applied to indicate compliance.

 

[USMCDOC]

The "felt" solution as proposed by Rodzilla in their depicted photographs on the web site is not legal. "The fore-end of the rifle must rest upon and/or be guided by the front bag(s)..." A piece of felt is not a bag.

The OP started this thread to find out what the new rules were. We're degenerating into the typical debate and criticisms of "rules". As competitors and match directors we need to know what are the "rules".

on his rest.. the rifle does in fact rest and ride upon a "bag".. the felt you are referring to .. would be on the side wall face of the block that holds the "rollers".. the "felt" would not be under the forearm of the rifle but would be abut the side of the forearm.

 

[USMCDOC]

This addresses approximately half the problem. The other half, is the rotating head. Non lockable on the Rodzilla top, lockable on the new NEO-X. There are opinions out there that state the rotating head is illegal where the joystick mechanism, that resides one inch below the pivot point, is just fine, per the phrase "or any other mechanical device" I'd like to see an official ruling on that before I order another rest for 2k, that wont be here for years.....

the "head" being able to "swivel".. the sole purpose to that is that you don't have to worry about getting the front rest "exactly" lined up on the target, with you being able to move the butt of the stock with the sand bag.. will then allow the rifle to be "lined" up with the target.. that is only reason and purpose of the "swiveling" action of the rest that Rod makes..

 

[USMCDOC]

My guns were weighed at both US Nationals I attended. They had little stickers applied to indicate compliance.

the person that you quoted i am sure is referring to local matches.. not the national matches..

 

[Drolds72]

the "head" being able to "swivel".. the sole purpose to that is that you don't have to worry about getting the front rest "exactly" lined up on the target, with you being able to move the butt of the stock with the sand bag.. will then allow the rifle to be "lined" up with the target.. that is only reason and purpose of the "swiveling" action of the rest that Rod makes..

Ummm.... that's why I bought it, and installed it on my old NEO 2 years ago. And it seems it was a popular enough feature for Seb to include it on the NEO-X. I'd happily replace the roller top with the BR top with the sandbag, but not if there is a chance that a match director is going to DQ me for the swivel action that does not lock.

 

[lawman29]

on his rest.. the rifle does in fact rest and ride upon a "bag".. the felt you are referring to .. would be on the side wall face of the block that holds the "rollers".. the "felt" would not be under the forearm of the rifle but would be abut the side of the forearm.

But it is being "guided", the sides must be a bag(s)

 

[TylerFromMS]

the person that you quoted i am sure is referring to local matches.. not the national matches..

Regional and state stuff mostly. I’ve never seen it outside of an IBS match at MSSA. There’s a certain level of trust in fellow competitors, and that’s a good thing.

My guns were weighed at both US Nationals I attended. They had little stickers applied to indicate compliance.

Oh cool. I’m not that big time. I think they should be weighed after every string, though, because I think I saw you putting something in your buttplate . My point was that if that particular front rest rule is enforced (which is very blatantly aimed at one particular manufacturer), let’s pick apart everything. Bring out the dial indicators to see if a front rest top moves.

 

[Taildrag15X]

What part of "OPEN" is so hard to understand? Allow inovation and testing to further the advancement of accuracy. If you want restriction, do it in a restricted class like FTR.

Open is not hard to understand if you read the Rules, it's there for "caliber", where TR is just that, .223-.308 as the Parent Discipline to F-Class only uses!

 

[Taildrag15X]

the person that you quoted i am sure is referring to local matches.. not the national matches..

All rifles were weighed at our local Matches, it goes back to the Rules and who follows them.... I never shot a Service Rifle Match where my trigger wasn't weighed.

 

[TylerFromMS]

But it is being "guided", the sides must be a bag(s)

I can put a business card between my stock and the sides. They don’t touch. They are not being “guided”. If I use side bags, are they required to touch my stock and be “guided?”

It depends on what the definition of is is.

Erik just won SWN with a rest that I believe has Teflon on the sides. Please don’t quote because I’m not 100% sure, but that is what I have been led to believe. Did he win because of that?- absolutely not. A good gun and superior wind calling won.

The way it was presented to me is an “unfair advantage”. A 300wsm has an unfair advantage to a 6mm bra at 1000 yards in the wind. Should it be banned?

 

[TylerFromMS]

All rifles were weighed at our local Matches, it goes back to the Rules and who follows them.... I never shot a Service Rifle Match where my trigger wasn't weighed.

Sling guys don’t count. Y’all love ALL those convoluted rules .

Think if it like this… you have a coat with leather elbow pads. Another company starts making foam ones. Both are accepted and you get the foam ones because they’re more comfortable to you. A rule comes down without any reasoning that your foam pads are not legal. That’s pretty much where we’re at.

 

[davidjoe]

I would disagree with that. I care much more about rules compatibility with benchrest than with international F Class. I know for a fact that I will never shoot F Class in another country, and I think most people are in that boat. I would like to try Open with my BR legal rifle, but I can't. As of right now, I'm not entirely sure if my BR rest is legal in F Class. I think it is? If you want to try both, who wants to figure out which rest is legal in which match? If making gear interchangable in the US between disciplines comes at a cost of making compliance overseas more difficult, so be it.

I agree with you. For a few more weeks, Canada is the last world match held, and there, the host club/range/base had absolutely no problem imposing a maximum effective BC on competitors’ cartridges. We literally could have our rounds disassembled, as well as chronographed on the line, to confirm that we had no more BC than essentially a very healthy .284 load with 180’s or a weak saum.

I can’t think of anything more range specific for international guests to conform to than drawing their cartridges on paper, as that rule specified. I scrapped the plan for 195’s after the ammo was already transported, contemplating a thin margin if hot outside. I stayed at the Brookshire Hotel, overlooking the range and I saw nothing unusual about its safety fan, … but anyhow… point being that potentially changing to a rest bag, for a few days every four years isn’t nearly as large a change as has already been required at worlds before, and if guys were concerned, they can always use a bag all the time.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Sling guys don’t count. Y’all love ALL those convoluted rules .

Think if it like this… you have a coat with leather elbow pads. Another company starts making foam ones. Both are accepted and you get the foam ones because they’re more comfortable to you. A rule comes down without any reasoning that your foam pads are not legal. That’s pretty much where we’re at.

Think of it like this…a Sling Shooter is the reason there is F-Class!!

 

[TylerFromMS]

@davidjoe I think the issue with this particular rule that many of us have a problem with is that it essentially makes 1 rest illegal. I believe it is more political than, as it is being presented, “keep from gaining an unfair advantage”.

We try to gain an unfair advantage, always. It’s what we do. Every time you try a new bullet, barrel, powder, etc… you’re trying to gain an unfair advantage.

Would having sandbags on the side make my scores go up or down? Nope! It sure won’t. Is it cool because it’s different? Yup!

Imagine if they suddenly said “all actions must be made 100% from steel”. That means the Pandas are out. Same thing.

Anyways, y’all have fun in this thread.

 

[USMCDOC]

All rifles were weighed at our local Matches, it goes back to the Rules and who follows them.... I never shot a Service Rifle Match where my trigger wasn't weighed.

i have shot lots of Service Rifle matches where the trigger wasn't weighed..

 

[USMCDOC]

But it is being "guided", the sides must be a bag(s)

if you want to get really technical.. the rifle is "guided" by the side of the bags or side bags in four pc bag set up as well nuff said

 

[lawman29]

My point was that if that particular front rest rule is enforced (which is very blatantly aimed at one particular manufacturer)

I don't believe there was any "nefarious" intent in the rule, to imply otherwise is reckless. The committee made a decision that they wanted to draw a line in the sand regarding front rests and what was evolving in new technology etc.
The committee has a thankless job, donating lots of their time and money to a sport they obviously care about. I support their efforts 100%. I don't care what the rules are - just tell me what the rules are - period and I'll follow them.
I have had my rifles weighed at Deep Creek and Berger. But that is irrelevant, the weight limit is a hard line and it is incumbent on each competitor to know that their rifle meets weight before participating. Those that don't are cheating themselves more than anyone else...