IVI brass thickness

[cjweaver13]

Hey all, new here so introductory post and also question.

I have been reloading for awhile but just getting into precision at midrange. I bought some 308 mil-surp IVI brass to start with, and with the limited searches I did seems to be good heavy brass...and I mean heavy. The average dry weight of the cases is around 185 grains plus or minus a few.

The first loads I did were IMR4064 and some Hornady 178 BTHP and I started at 40 grains ladder test which was bottom of a few manual except Hornady which went all the way down to 37gr. Even at 40 I was getting heavy bolt lift and had to yank up pretty hard to release the lugs. There weren't any other pressure signs though including no flattened primers, bulged necks etc...

After this they were all fireformed anyway, and I did a .002" bump and then a neck size with a Lee collet die at .306. The second tests I started at 38.6 and went back up to 40gr max. I ended up shooting .51" and .58" groups at 100 yards between 39.3 and39.6. I would think this is inside the node, but the points of impact were about 3/4" difference which was weird, although I was aiming with a 12" verticical difference so not sure if that affected it due to gun angle?

Anyway, without a chrono I can't tell what velocity was, but it seems I'm way down on the charges. According to the Hornady manual if I was using Hornady brass which weights around 168gr or so when I measured a couple, I'd be shooting around 2400fps, but with the increase in potential pressure I'd guess I'm closer to mid 2600fps just using a ballistic calculator to plus in differences in POI between 100 and 300. Not sure if this sounds too big of a difference for thicker brass or now. Even so I'm still supersonic out to 1000 yards if I get that far in the future, and a chronograph is on the short list of things to buy this spring to help validate but not sure if anybody has specific experience with this combo or not. Also, the gun is a Savage 110 Elite Precision with a 26" barrel running a Diamondback Vortex Tactical 4-16x44 forgot to mention in case that matters.

 

[Fuj]

Never heard of IVI brass. I have used Israeli IMI brass in .223.
I like it. It is on the heavy side, but I have found it to be very
consistent in weight. Does your brass have the NATO stamp ??

 

[SSL]

I believe you mean IMI? Very good, tough brass. I use it in. 223 and an old lot of brass in .44 Magnum. And no, it is not unusual for that brass to be thicker and require lower loading weights. Without a chronograph, you really don't know where you are. With the heavier brass, maybe pressure is high enough for your targeted velocities, but maybe not.

 

[Plumsask]

I believe you mean IMI? Very good, tough brass. I use it in. 223 and an old lot of brass in .44 Magnum. And no, it is not unusual for that brass to be thicker and require lower loading weights. Without a chronograph, you really don't know where you are. With the heavier brass, maybe pressure is high enough for your targeted velocities, but maybe not.

IVI is Canadian mil.
Industries valcartier Inc.

 

[M-61]

Industries Valcartier Inc., Valcartier, Quebec, Canada
Never ran across it.
IMI? You bet. 1st class IMO

 

[cjweaver13]

Never heard of IVI brass. I have used Israeli IMI brass in .223.
I like it. It is on the heavy side, but I have found it to be very
consistent in weight. Does your brass have the NATO stamp ??

Yes it has the NATO stamp for sure

 

[cjweaver13]

IVI is Canadian mil.
Industries valcartier Inc.

Yup when I first googled it, it took me a few minutes to figure out if it was IMI or IAI. But IVI is what came as for the Canadian mil brass like you said. IAI didn't exist lol

 

[Murray Brook]

I have used IVI brass in the past when you could get it here in Canada. It was good brass as good as the Rem/Win brass of the day. Reloaders up here use to call it Imperial brass. In fact they had there own line of ammo and was good. They were the first ones to load ammo with plastic tips way back in the 60's. They were called saber tips. I still have some.

 

[SSL]

IVI is Canadian mil.
Industries valcartier Inc.

Thanks. I never heard of it.

 

[Hoot]

I have used IVI brass in the past when you could get it here in Canada. It was good brass as good as the Rem/Win brass of the day. Reloaders up here use to call it Imperial brass. In fact they had there own line of ammo and was good. They are the first ones to load ammo with plastic tips way back in the 60's. They were called saber tips. I still have some.

I still have some Imperial Factory Seconds shot shells that I bought back in the mid 70's. Same company?
Also still have some Canuck brand seconds. High School budget back then.

Hoot

 

[Timberyote]

Good IVI brass depends on the year, '71 and '74 were good as were some of the '80's and '90's.

Before IVI was DA - Dominion Arsenals - and DA 64 was premium brass.

 

[cjweaver13]

Good IVI brass depends on the year, '71 and '74 were good as were some of the '80's and '90's.

Before IVI was DA - Dominion Arsenals - and DA 64 was premium brass.

Most of what I have is IVI 10

 

[Dave Berg]

Heavier case = less internal volume = higher pressure = higher velocity.

Here's a guy who likes heavy 308 brass because he can save money on powder:

308 Winchester Case Weight by Manufacturer - The Firing Line Forums

308 Winchester Case Weight by Manufacturer Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

thefiringline.com

 

[Timberyote]

Most of what I have is IVI 10

I do not use IVI brass just Norma, plus I haven't seen 2010 or later.

 

[Laurie]

Before IVI was DA - Dominion Arsenals

My first 7X57mm rifle, a Boer War souvenir (Orange Free State) M1895 long service rifle, was initially fed with Imperial Dominion hunting ammo loaded with 175gn SPs, and this gave me the brass for my first handloads in this calibre. This was 1986 and I'd guess the ammo was old even then, in very tatty cardboard cartons. Despite 7X57's reputation of being 'mild', this stuff was loaded 'hot' and in the M1895's straight-wrist shotgun type buttstock it kicked! Unless you really pulled it hard back into the shoulder, it also rose and smacked you on the cheekbone!

I also have a single example of an IVI 5.56 NATO 09 dated case. It came with a load of LCs, a WCC, and a trio of TAA (Taiwan Arsenal) cases in a 50-case 'Top Brass' reconditioned once-fired bubble pack that I was presented with for review. It is very heavy compared to Lapua 223 Match and even more so LC 5.56 cases.

 

[Zero333]

IVI is made by General Dynamics in The Great White North (not so great anymore). And yes, IVI brass is thicker and has less capacity. I've only seen it a handful of times up here in Canada because they don't sell ammo to civilians and only when someone doing testing for the military at my range is when I've seen it. I've not seen it for about 3 years but thanks to the fellas who test stuff for the military I've had the privilege to handle some nice Canuck Military Sniper rifles.