I've Been Storing Powder and Primer's Wrong

[jelenko]

I have a reloading building that has 2 - 12 x 12 sections. My son and I insulated half of it and installed an AC unit. Keep all the powder stored in wooden boxes out of 1 inch thick Russian Birch plywood. I work in the furniture industry and it is readily available to me. Primers are also stored in the same type box across the room. Everything is just a roll away in my chair. Venting is the key and the wooden boxes do a great job and maintain a stable temp year round.

Very cool.

 

[Catfur]

Dunno about lab tests, but there have been a number of documented field cases of spontaneous combustion of smokeless powder. It definitely can happen. Poudre B, one of the very first successful smokeless powders from back in the 1880's, was very unstable.

The French had two Battleships destroyed by Poudre B going off spontaneously. When the Liberte blew, it sent armor plates (battleship armor plates) hundreds of yards, massively damaging nearby ships.

There is no logical reason for sealed powder stored on a shelf in a basement to spontaneously combust.

Mr. Nitrate ion would like to have a word with you. Mr. Nitrate ion (and his buddy, the nitrate moiety) love making stuff go boom! Sometimes spontaneously.

When powder is made, which is a complicated, dangerous process involving fun stuff like concentrated nitric and sulfuric acid (or even more fun stuff like nitroglycerin) if you don't get all the nitric acid out, it will destroy the stabilizer in the final product slowly over time. When the stabilizer runs out, Mr. Nitrate ion goes to work freeing his nitrate group buddies who then do what nitrates do best: oxidize stuff, rapidly, very, very rapidly.

If you contain this fun reaction sufficiently (like with a whole lotta powder in a nice tight safe), then that very, very rapid oxidation reaction can go from subsonic to supersonic. We have a word for that: detonation.

 

[Dave M.]

The French had two Battleships destroyed by Poudre B going off spontaneously. When the Liberte blew, it sent armor plates (battleship armor plates) hundreds of yards, massively damaging nearby ships.


Mr. Nitrate ion would like to have a word with you. Mr. Nitrate ion (and his buddy, the nitrate moiety) love making stuff go boom! Sometimes spontaneously.

When powder is made, which is a complicated, dangerous process involving fun stuff like concentrated nitric and sulfuric acid (or even more fun stuff like nitroglycerin) if you don't get all the nitric acid out, it will destroy the stabilizer in the final product slowly over time. When the stabilizer runs out, Mr. Nitrate ion goes to work freeing his nitrate group buddies who then do what nitrates do best: oxidize stuff, rapidly, very, very rapidly.

If you contain this fun reaction sufficiently (like with a whole lotta powder in a nice tight safe), then that very, very rapid oxidation reaction can go from subsonic to supersonic. We have a word for that: detonation.

I’ll keep doing what I’m doing and you can keep playing with Mr. Nitrate ion. Any examples of spontaneously combusting smokeless powders in this century?? Also, I’ve never stored nor suggested storing smokeless powders in ANY confined space.

 

[Dgd6mm]

So, are the powders of today safer than the powders of say 40 - 50 or so years ago?

 

[Fuj]

So, are the powders of today safer than the powders of say 40 - 50 or so years ago?

Not really, but I've always wondered though about the push in the
last few years to add more and more de-coppering agents, flash
suppressants, and other goodies for temp stability. You hope the
mad chemists got things right regarding these new upgrades and
long term storage ??

 

[Dgd6mm]

I have inherited my fathers reloading stuff, 65,000 LR, 45,000 SR, 45,000LP primers and about 600 pounds of rifle and pistol powders , unopened in 4,15,30 pound metal kegs. Winchester and S&W Alco primers some from 1971, some of the powder kegs are from the 60's I think? stored in a basement in Ill. for a time 70's 80's 90's in 2005 they moved to Florida, in the garage in 20 mm ammo cans , some not. I have not had any of it fail yet.

This is my point in general. I have 20 plus year old powder that has been now stored in 3 different locations and different climate controlled areas. It's all still good and no sort of signs of detonation. I will be dropping charges this morning and seating bullets from some of the oldest powder I have. Gee I wonder if I've been storing it wrong these years OR if I'm just over thinking it?

 

[PracticalTactical]

The only problem I have witnessed first hand regarding powder storage is that the powder solvents evaporate from the powder slowly over time which makes the powder lighter.

A good friend was shooting the provincial championship and he noticed stiff bolt lift on a load that he has used for years.

It turned out the powder got lighter from long term storage and he was basically adding extra kernels, going by weight.

In the end, the load proved to be too hot to the point where he could no longer open his bolt. Luckily for him there was a military armorer there who decided to "help". I'm not sure you can call it help when he broke the handle off his bolt.

He graciously committed to welding the handle back on and he seemed to have done a good job of it.

So the moral of the story is to revalidate the powder charge from time to time over the years if you are using old powder.

Keeping the powder in a cool place presumably slows the solvent evaporation rate and keeps the energy level by weight more stable over the years.

 

[Clark]

A mouse gnawed a hole in my 8 pound plastic jug of surplus IMR4895.

 

[Webster]

I always assumed you needed climate controlled storage for primers and powder, but I've seen articles that say this isn't true. I've stored both in my gun safe in air-tight ammo boxes and I've seen articles that say they shouldn't be stored in those ammo boxes and primers and powder shouldn't be stored together. That leads me to the question of, "Where should I store it?"

I've removed it form the ammo boxes, but its still in my gun safe. I'm thinking of making a wooden storage cabinet out of the recommended 1" thick wood and putting it in my workshop. Now, the question becomes, do I need two cabinets, one for primers and another for powder, or can I use one cabinet for both if I keep them separate inside the cabinet?

SAAMI writeup on storing powder.

SAAMI.ORG

 

[Kracken McGraw]

A mouse gnawed a hole in my 8 pound plastic jug of surplus IMR4895.

Mice are the scourge of the universe.

 

[LAH]

A mouse gnawed a hole in my 8 pound plastic jug of surplus IMR4895.

Wonder if he had carbon bowel.

 

[Hohn]

There is no logical reason for sealed powder stored on a shelf in a basement to spontaneously combust. Just be smart. Put in mid room level on an open shelf. Not on the floor because of flooding and not up by the ceiling because electrical lines up there and temp swings are higher on the ceiling of the basement. If powder spontaneously combusted, Cabela’s wouldn’t store 100+ pounds on the shelf (when they used to have any powder on the shelf).
Dave

This. My powder is on a wire rack in contact with the foundation of the house. 18”+ from the floor in a conditioned space 10ft from the utilities for the house (hot water, etc).

Ideally, you’d use a bonding clamp to tie a conductive wire rack to a ground rod.

We had a 500 year flood come through in 2008 and my basement was bone dry.

The room, being in a dry basement, is cool year round but also not excessively dry in winter (no extreme cold here in southern Indiana.)

I find the risk acceptable and manageable with appropriate caution.

 

[Hammer101st]

Ive seen ammo bunkers catch on fire ive seen humvee's blown up and you know what allways stayed in its can ammo while being cooked off includeing powder bags for the 155 howitzers so primerz will allways be stored in surplus ammo cans with good rubber seals at my house

 

[Txhillbilly]

I keep all of my powder and primer's out in my 16 x 24 insulated detached shop. Primer's are in wood cabinets mounted to the walls, and all of my powder's are setting on wood shelves mounted to the walls.
Been doing it this way since the late 70's with no issues, except some AA4350 that I transferred from a 8# jug to a clean / empty 1# Hodgdon plastic container with a metal lid. Over time, the metal lid deteriorated from the inside out. I've only seen that happen on the old metal powder cans from the old days.

 

[The German]

I store almost everything in these little brass containers - no issue keeping it there over years ;-)

My reloading room is in a low humidity, relatively cool basement and I store primers in the boxes they come in drawers of the reloading bench, all powder in the containers they come in in a shelf. 5+ years and no problems.

 

[GLO123]

Do you guys keep loaded ammo out of the safe also?

They don’t make a safe big enough for that.

 

[CacheCropp]

I have inherited my fathers reloading stuff, 65,000 LR, 45,000 SR, 45,000LP primers and about 600 pounds of rifle and pistol powders , unopened in 4,15,30 pound metal kegs. Winchester and S&W Alco primers some from 1971, some of the powder kegs are from the 60's I think? stored in a basement in Ill. for a time 70's 80's 90's in 2005 they moved to Florida, in the garage in 20 mm ammo cans , some not. I have not had any of it fail yet.

If I was given powder from the 70’s, I’d use it to fertilize my garden.

 

[cmysix]

If I was given powder from the 70’s, I’d use it to fertilize my garden.

guess I should throw all the primers out too? velocity's are spot on with the reloaders manual, why should I throw it out?

 

[CacheCropp]

Make sure you till it up. If you dump that powder in a pile in your yard and a year later drop a match the ground would start to burn fiercely. Done it in my gravel driveway while grinding some steel. Four inches of snow during the winter.

LOL, well I should’ve clarified, make sure you set your Scott’s Spreader on 12 or higher and cautiously work your way down to a denser pattern.

 

[stavey]

My 10 powder jugs are in one room inside a plastic bin that is kept between 50-70 deg and has a dehumidifier. My 6000 some primers are keep in another room inside a plastic bin with desiccant packs. That room is kept between 65-70 deg and has a dehumidifier. I would make two wooden boxes if I were you. I think I will make two boxes this winter.

I remember reading something years ago about not using desiccant packs sealed in with your primers. Something about the desiccant drying out the primer compound over time. True or not I don’t know.