I've Been Storing Powder and Primer's Wrong

[dblcrona]

You have successfully created an IED. Gunpowder becomes an explosive when its combustion is contained, such as in a sealed metal container or a gun safe. The metal of the cabinet becomes shrapnel.

I would refer you to this link at SAAMI

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder-11-8-2022.pdf

and more specifically to the referenced NFPA 495 Chapter 14 which also includes primers.

You have successfully created an IED. Gunpowder becomes an explosive when its combustion is contained, such as in a sealed metal container or a gun safe. The metal of the cabinet becomes shrapnel.

I would refer you to this link at SAAMI

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder-11-8-2022.pdf

and more specifically to the referenced NFPA 495 Chapter 14 which also includes primers.

It is not air tight.

 

[Doom]

It is not air tight.

Air tight or not doesn't matter. It's more a function of volume and rate of heat/gas release. It is designed for flammable liquids nor explosive solids.

 

[Doom]

Recent incident.

 

[joshb]

The pic of the “metal gun cabinet” tells the story. Notice how it’s bulged.

 

[Tesoro]

Why not use safe for storing powder and primers, who’s gonna light a match in there and if the house catch’s on fire don’t you have bigger problems to worry about ?

Not me! I have a 800lb empty 30x30x60 safe. If my house caught on fire and the safe got hot enough to cause the powders to self ignite, then I could have a bomb that could put Timothy McViegh to shame.

 

[JFrank]

Not me! I have a 800lb empty 30x30x60 safe. If my house caught on fire and the safe got hot enough to cause the powders to self ignite, then I could have a bomb that could put Timothy McViegh to shame.

I understand Chris, tell me where you’re going to safely store the powders and primers ?
Out in the shop next to all the power tools ?
In the basement next to the furnace ?
In the garage next to the combustion engine in your car ?

 

[dblcrona]

The pic of the “metal gun cabinet” tells the story. Notice how it’s bulged.View attachment 1539027

Looking at pictures is nice but the real story is in the article. Did anyone actually read it? This guy was smoking at his bench while reloading with an excessive amount of powder on the bench. He also had powder in the nearby cabinet that was not in its original containers and faulty wiring and lighting. No proof of this but the cabinet was probably open when he ignited the powder on his bench which is what ignited the powder in the cabinet. The whole purpose of the flammable cabinet is to prevent ignition in the first place. This guy was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[JFrank]

I read it and yes he provided a source of ignition.

Natural Gas explosions are far more common, and that’s part every day construction. A little common sense goes a long ways.

 

[Thud]

I'm late to the game on this one. Went out to get more popcorn. Then needed new way to store it

 

[Tesoro]

I understand Chris, tell me where you’re going to safely store the powders and primers ?
Out in the shop next to all the power tools ?
In the basement next to the furnace ?
In the garage next to the combustion engine in your car ?

No I store just what I am using in my dedicated little loading room in my house. As I live on the coast I wrap my primer boxes in stretchy plastic wrap to keep out moisture. The bulk reserve stuff is stored in my standalone shop in sealed plastic containers. I dont think there is really any hazard to properly storing some or all of your powders-primers in your house if they are isolated, ie in a closet. If your house catches on fire and reaches that stuff, then it will just burn fast for a few seconds and be over, but the house will still be burning no matter! As long as I dont have propane applainces in my house I feel good !

 

[Charlie-NY]

I keep my powder and primers the same way the big stores do, on shelves. I sure don't have the quantities that many of you have shown at your local Scheels, or wherever, so I can't imagine that I'm not properly/safely storing the stuff.
FWIW - the primers are not near the powder. All of my components are in the basement, which is climate controlled, and not in the room where the boiler and hot water heater are.

It's kind of surprising that no one markets powder magazines specifically designed for homeowners.

 

[Doom]

I keep my powder and primers the same way the big stores do, on shelves. I sure don't have the quantities that many of you have shown at your local Scheels, or wherever, so I can't imagine that I'm not properly/safely storing the stuff.
FWIW - the primers are not near the powder. All of my components are in the basement, which is climate controlled, and not in the room where the boiler and hot water heater are.

It's kind of surprising that no one markets powder magazines specifically designed for homeowners.

If you read the NFPA requirements/recommendations there is no requirement for a magazine. Powder properly stored is a fire hazard and the limit is based on limiting the heat release and gas generation that can take place as long as it is allowed to burn in an open (non contained) environment. Primers stored in DOT containers are not consider to be a serious problem as the containers are designed to prevent one primer from setting off a change reaction in normal situations where a primer might ignite. In a fire the quantity limits the potential danger for primer ignition.

The NFPA a non government run organization. Its primary purpose is to limit the loss of life and property and typically evaluates major fire losses and provides recommendations to prevent future losses. The National Electric Code that your house was built to is actually NFPA 70E.

 

[Dave M.]

I have read that smokeless powder comes in plastic bottles is for safety reasons. The plastic will melt, preventing the powder from being contained in an enclosed container, and will just burn, probably causing other plastic bottles to melt, with more powder burning but not causing any explosions. Primers would probably go bang as well from the heat. I've also read that loaded ammo will pop off like/similar to firecrackers as the loaded round is not in a chamber, so any pressure from heat will not equal to what occurs when a round is fired in a chamber.

I store reloading components on shelves, in cabinets, plastic storage tubs, etc., none of which are airtight in a climate controlled environment. I store loaded ammo in plastic ammo boxes and crates, none in airtight containers.

Same reason all vehicles now use blow molded fuel tanks.

 

[ebb]

Lots of speculation about metal ammo cans that i would have agreed with before my mentors house burned down. He stored all of his ammo in the GI metal ammo cans and was very impressed with how they preformed. He said that after the fire he picked up and examined all the ammo cans and they all had bowed lids that allowed the pressure to escape slowly but that every bullet and case was still in the ammo can after they had cooked off. He told me keep your guns in the safe, keep ammo in a GI can outside the safe. I've read all the laws about a 1 inch cabinet for gunpowder and primers, where do you get 1 inch material to make a cabinet from? All they plywood and sheet goods used in cabinet construction are 3/4 inch or less. I guess you could have a custom milled boards made 1 inch but why? I looked at Gander mountains powder cabinet and it was a 3/4 box lined with 1/4 on the inside.

 

[Darkside]

Fire rates plywood, glue and screw two together. And if you're not in the construction industry you probably think
Fire Rated Wood-- really.

 

[JFrank]

Lots of speculation about metal ammo cans that i would have agreed with before my mentors house burned down. He stored all of his ammo in the GI metal ammo cans and was very impressed with how they preformed. He said that after the fire he picked up and examined all the ammo cans and they all had bowed lids that allowed the pressure to escape slowly but that every bullet and case was still in the ammo can after they had cooked off. He told me keep your guns in the safe, keep ammo in a GI can outside the safe. I've read all the laws about a 1 inch cabinet for gunpowder and primers, where do you get 1 inch material to make a cabinet from? All they plywood and sheet goods used in cabinet construction are 3/4 inch or less. I guess you could have a custom milled boards made 1 inch but why? I looked at Gander mountains powder cabinet and it was a 3/4 box lined with 1/4 on the inside.

The size your looking for is called five quarter or you could bond a couple layers of plywood.

 

[ebb]

I totally get the lumber sizes and 5/4 would mill to a 1 inch board. What I am saying is that the 1 inch number sounds like something that was dreamed up by a paper pusher that has never built a cabinet before. I don't see how the 1 inch could give explosive protection without a whole bunch of specs on using stronger fasteners than the norm. Back in the day we used to use fire rated plywood all the time and it is not mentioned, however I would not want to make a good looking cabinet with that crooked stuff. My components are siting on a shelf in a closet that only has one light and no electrical outlets, since my friends fire most all ammo of any number is in an ammo box and only guns and papers are in the safe. Lets hope none of us have to find out what works and why, my friend was years getting over his fire and the electrical COOP that installed a damaged transformer that caused it all would never admit any guilt. When they came and removed the transformer they never let him get close to it and it went from the pole to the bed of the winch truck, he had to climb the side of the truck to get a picture.

 

[DogBuster]

Stable temp & humidity

58* & 20% H here

 

[JFrank]

I totally get the lumber sizes and 5/4 would mill to a 1 inch board. What I am saying is that the 1 inch number sounds like something that was dreamed up by a paper pusher that has never built a cabinet before. I don't see how the 1 inch could give explosive protection without a whole bunch of specs on using stronger fasteners than the norm. Back in the day we used to use fire rated plywood all the time and it is not mentioned, however I would not want to make a good looking cabinet with that crooked stuff. My components are siting on a shelf in a closet that only has one light and no electrical outlets, since my friends fire most all ammo of any number is in an ammo box and only guns and papers are in the safe. Lets hope none of us have to find out what works and why, my friend was years getting over his fire and the electrical COOP that installed a damaged transformer that caused it all would never admit any guilt. When they came and removed the transformer they never let him get close to it and it went from the pole to the bed of the winch truck, he had to climb the side of the truck to get a picture.

It’s a nominal lumber fire resistant number based on burn time. I’d have to dig out my code books to give you more info. I’m retired now but still have my reference books stored away.

 

[ebb]

That makes as much sense as anything I've heard. I can see that they would want to get the fire crew enough time to respond.